Sajid

What are the pros/cons of just recharging the original a/c system as opposed to converting it to the new one? Price and otherwise?

My mechanic says itll cost $335 to convert it to the new system. Is that a fair price? I havent asked him how much it would be to just recharge the existing.

Please advise

TacoBill

A local shop is going to charge me $40- to recharge the freon R12 in my 951. Hope this solves my A/C problem!

951Tom

I've been researching this alot lately. If you get your $15 609 certification at <a href="http://www.imaca.org," target="_blank">www.imaca.org,</a> you can legally purchase R12 freon and put it in yourself. It's going for roughly $20 per can on eBay. Just make sure your system doesn't have any leaks as the stuff is bad for the environment.

If you convert, you have to flush out all the existing R12 mineral oil. Check out the following sites to read about it and browse the discussion forums.

<a href="http://www.ackits.com" target="_blank">www.ackits.com</a>
<a href="http://www.aircondition.com" target="_blank">www.aircondition.com</a>
<a href="http://www.acsource.com" target="_blank">www.acsource.com</a>

Raceit

Is there such a thing as a stop leak for A/C systems? If so I'd like to try it as one last resort.

gleamingred944

Conversion requires all new hoses and couplings because the new stuff hunts for leaks like Dick Tracy. You have to change your drier too. Then, you have to add stopleak because a condenser can easily have a metal-to-metal leak that allows perfect vaccuum but leaks when under pressure. Finally, the new fluids give you about 30% less real cooling than the original.

I converted. I'd be better off if I hadn't.

Kelly Chiu

Hey TacoBill, where in SoCal are you from? And which A/C shop are you getting the freon from? I need to get my 951's system charged up as well. A black car in LA during the summer is not too comfortable.

-Kelly

951Tom

Gleamingred944, your conversion doesn't work well? I've heard other listers say their a/c is still very cold with R134A. My mechanic said you can still get vent temps in the upper 30's or very low 40's with r134a in a 944. The best is to get a new style parallel flow condensor. I hear R134A actually works better but due to the older condensor design older cars came with, you can't take advantage of it.

PeteL

I did the conversion myself. I replaced o-rings and receiver/drier. I replaced all the components, then had a local shop pull a vacuum on the system for 30-40 minutes. Then I added 1 can of refrigerant/oil (it comes with the conversion kit) and then added two more cans of refrigerant. I do have a slow leak that I need to address, but the system is very cold. Works well.

Sajid

Is there one standard size bottle for the R12 freon? Has anyone bought freon on ebay? And what is the life expectancy of the freon?

ZV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 951Tom:
<strong>I hear R134A actually works better but due to the older condensor design older cars came with, you can't take advantage of it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">No, it doesn't. All else being equal, R-12 will work better and the system will last longer. Now, if an R-134a system has a larger condensor and can handle higher head pressures than an R-12 system, the R-134a system will be able to match or exceed the R-12 system's performance depending upon just how much of a size advantage the R-134a system has.

The temperature-pressure curve for R-12 is simply superior to the temperature-pressure curve of R-134a and R-134a will always require a larger system than R-12 for a given cooling ability.

I've talked with a lot of people who do nothing but HVAC and MVAC and the universal consensus has been that if all else is equal, a system will work better and last longer with R-12 than it will with R-134a. R-134a is also vastly more leak-prone.

Aaron

ZV

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Sajid:
<strong>Is there one standard size bottle for the R12 freon? Has anyone bought freon on ebay? And what is the life expectancy of the freon?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Just noticed this, I can answer two of them.

Freon comes in 12 ounce cans. You need a tap for the cans to charge the system.

If the system doesn't leak, the Freon will last forever.

Aaron

TacoBill

Kelly,
It's a local (general) auto shop in Carson. It's my brother-in-laws friend's shop. Not sure if he had to order it or had the freon laying around in the shop.
I can give you the shops name and phone# if you want. LMK

951Tom

Sajid, I just bought some freon off eBay but it hasn't arrived yet. There are a bunch of R12 auctions running right now. I'd bid soon cuz once it gets hot, I bet alot more people will be bidding.

ZV, thanks for the info. Funny, the shop that said that also wanted me to buy a r134a parallel flow condensor. Just goes to show....Rennlist is the BEST place for correct info.

Raceit

Has anybody heard of something called Freeze-12? (If I recalled the name correctly.)

951Tom

Freeze 12 is a blend of R134A and R142B. It's on the EPA's acceptable retrofit list. Here's a short Freeze12 FAQ:

<a href="http://www.americanrefrigerants.com/pages/tip-5.htm" target="_blank">http://www.americanrefrigerants.com/pages/tip-5.htm</a>