possible 951 purchase please help!
08-29-2002, 12:09 AM
#1
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possible 951 purchase please help!
hey guys,
im new to the whole porsche world. i have recently fallen in love with a certain 1987 944 turbo. it had 28k miles on it. and is absolutely mint... the only problem is that this car has had nothing replaced or repaired on it ever. it has only had oil changes and a set of tires and maybe other little things. everything on the car works, and the car is perfect. but it obviously needs some things, like timing belt and all hoses and belts, these are the things that i can think of right away. i need to know what all this car will need. i know i can trust you guys to shoot straight with me, that is the reason i came here. the car looks like it hasnt been outside a day in its life. also i am 18 and about to go to college in a year, in your honest opinion would it not be wise for me to purchase a car like this for while im in college and making very little money.
im new to the whole porsche world. i have recently fallen in love with a certain 1987 944 turbo. it had 28k miles on it. and is absolutely mint... the only problem is that this car has had nothing replaced or repaired on it ever. it has only had oil changes and a set of tires and maybe other little things. everything on the car works, and the car is perfect. but it obviously needs some things, like timing belt and all hoses and belts, these are the things that i can think of right away. i need to know what all this car will need. i know i can trust you guys to shoot straight with me, that is the reason i came here. the car looks like it hasnt been outside a day in its life. also i am 18 and about to go to college in a year, in your honest opinion would it not be wise for me to purchase a car like this for while im in college and making very little money.
08-29-2002, 12:18 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Not the best car in the world for the unemployed or underemployed. Count on replacing belts and tensioners/rollers, as a definite start. Are ou gonna do the work yourself? Just a few hundred dollars. Taking it to a dealer? Over a thousand, easy.
08-29-2002, 12:26 AM
#3
Well...28K is great and it might seem like nothing is worn out but the cars AGE is going to work against you....to use an analogy... if you were bedridden for a year your legs would atrophy..and by getting out of bed your legs would collapse because of non use.... The rubber and belts and fluids are junk from sitting.
DON'T drive that car without having the belts and rollers and pulleys changed..
But ultimately if you are seriously mechanically inclined you could get away with having that car in college...Honestly I would set aside 3000-5000 dollars for first year maintenance.
I really can't tell you in good faith to buy that car on a limited first year college budget...
That cars lack of use makes it a time bomb.
I would run the numbers...how much for the car? can you put away 400 a month for repairs?
If the numbers add up get the car if not walk away.
I can tell you..having a 2 seater in school is smart....NO ONE WILL MAKE YOU DRIVE ON THE WEEK ENDS
DON'T drive that car without having the belts and rollers and pulleys changed..
But ultimately if you are seriously mechanically inclined you could get away with having that car in college...Honestly I would set aside 3000-5000 dollars for first year maintenance.
I really can't tell you in good faith to buy that car on a limited first year college budget...
That cars lack of use makes it a time bomb.
I would run the numbers...how much for the car? can you put away 400 a month for repairs?
If the numbers add up get the car if not walk away.
I can tell you..having a 2 seater in school is smart....NO ONE WILL MAKE YOU DRIVE ON THE WEEK ENDS
08-29-2002, 12:34 AM
#4
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*chuckles* You've only fallen in love with one? Sheesh, everytime I see a clean NON red/black/white 951, I fall in love (looking at an 88 Midnight Blue right now.. *drools*).
While I don't yet have a Porsche, I can speak from a mechanics standpoint on low mileage older cars - they often require the same, and usually more work than a frequently driven example. The rubber bits just plain wear out when not used a lot. Gaskets tend to fail abnormally too - everything's Designed to be lubed and when that happens infrequently they dry out. Then as you try to bring a garage queen out as a daily driver, things just constantally leak. I've encountered it time and time again (motorcycles since I'm a MC mechanic - but it all applies to any vehicle).
If you ARE going to do your own work, then having the factory service manuals is absollutly essential. Search the threads in here and you'll find one that has links to download everything (I just finished - a FULL CD, and that's with everything zipped).
Cheers!
While I don't yet have a Porsche, I can speak from a mechanics standpoint on low mileage older cars - they often require the same, and usually more work than a frequently driven example. The rubber bits just plain wear out when not used a lot. Gaskets tend to fail abnormally too - everything's Designed to be lubed and when that happens infrequently they dry out. Then as you try to bring a garage queen out as a daily driver, things just constantally leak. I've encountered it time and time again (motorcycles since I'm a MC mechanic - but it all applies to any vehicle).
If you ARE going to do your own work, then having the factory service manuals is absollutly essential. Search the threads in here and you'll find one that has links to download everything (I just finished - a FULL CD, and that's with everything zipped).
Cheers!
08-29-2002, 12:36 AM
#5
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my dad and i are both mechanically inclined, i have nearly a full year before i will go to college. do you think that is enough time to get everything squared away and make it reliable. we plan on doing the work ourself but i really need to know what i should expect, and i would like to expect the worst and hope for the best. also what would you guys offer for this car. the seller is asking 17,500. both my dad and i feel that this is WAY to high for this car, even in its amazing condition. this car started right up when i went to look at it and it sounded great. so what would you guys think it would cost to replace all the rubber and also the timing belt, if i do it myself.
thanks for all the replies!
thanks for all the replies!
08-29-2002, 12:42 AM
#7
[quote]Originally posted by rcrick01:
<strong> the seller is asking 17,500. both my dad and i feel that this is WAY to high for this car, even in its amazing condition. !</strong><hr></blockquote>
First stop running that car...IT NEEDS BELTS and ROLLERS.... If you break a belt it will take 5000 to fix that car..... just starting it is bad news
and yes $17,500...is a joke tell him to get his head out of his ***.... The guys who have 951 know the market better I can't tell you what is fair value
<strong> the seller is asking 17,500. both my dad and i feel that this is WAY to high for this car, even in its amazing condition. !</strong><hr></blockquote>
First stop running that car...IT NEEDS BELTS and ROLLERS.... If you break a belt it will take 5000 to fix that car..... just starting it is bad news
and yes $17,500...is a joke tell him to get his head out of his ***.... The guys who have 951 know the market better I can't tell you what is fair value
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08-29-2002, 12:49 AM
#8
how many hours a month are you willing to put into this car? I'll bet the interior and paint is cherry... but still I would think $3000 in the first 3 months and another $2000 over the next 6 months....
With the help of this list you will save $$$$$ a huge amount...
Many people here could not afford and would not afford these cars without Rennlist...
With the help of this list you will save $$$$$ a huge amount...
Many people here could not afford and would not afford these cars without Rennlist...
08-29-2002, 12:58 AM
#9
I am going to give you fair warning...Once you get infected by the Porsche bug...THERE IS NO CURE. I know of no one working on a cure ether.
These cars are far more temperamental than a woman and equally unpredictable. Some times they can be more money.. but equally as much fun.
These cars are far more temperamental than a woman and equally unpredictable. Some times they can be more money.. but equally as much fun.
08-29-2002, 12:58 AM
#10
Race Car
I'll go along on the dried out rubber theory, back in '83 I had a '74 Caddy with 21,000 on it, the tranny seals started leaking after a month and I ended up having to have the trans rebuilt. The next month it was a caliper.
That car will take a bit of work, but I still don't think the seller will have much trouble with the price. I recently heard of a similar example that went for more, and the concours guys will pay top dollar for a pristine, low mileage car. When you consider that clean high mileage 951s have gotten into the 5 figure range again....
As Deepice said, expect to pay $3000-$5000 to make it road worthy and from my experience, $2-$3000 per year to keep it that way. If you have the time and tools to do most of your own work, the low end of these ranges is posible, if not you may even excede these numbers.
That car will take a bit of work, but I still don't think the seller will have much trouble with the price. I recently heard of a similar example that went for more, and the concours guys will pay top dollar for a pristine, low mileage car. When you consider that clean high mileage 951s have gotten into the 5 figure range again....
As Deepice said, expect to pay $3000-$5000 to make it road worthy and from my experience, $2-$3000 per year to keep it that way. If you have the time and tools to do most of your own work, the low end of these ranges is posible, if not you may even excede these numbers.
08-29-2002, 01:07 AM
#11
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OK, without seeing & driving the car, or knowing the storage conditions, it's a crap shoot, but here's my starting list:
Immediate, right _now_!: Timing & balance shaft belts, water pump, all rollers & tensioner, both accessory drive belts.. This _cannot_ be postponed! The belt on there is living on borrowed time (about five or six years worth!) if it's original... wrecks the valves if it fails. Also all rubber fuel lines in the engine compartment (known failure point = toasted car).
Immediate future: Rebuild brake calipers, replace master cylinder & all rubber brake hoses (safety issue here); could upgrade to SS lines for a Clint Eastwood (few dollars more).
Next, all cooling system & heater hoses; there's a lot of them, most are custom molded, some are a PITA to get to, factory tends to use crimp-on clamps in the dam'dest places...hard to remove.
Next, clutch master & slave cylinder, and blue suction hose. Gonna fail soon if not already. Can strand you. Also plug wires.
Tires dry rot; look for cracks in the tread grooves, reject tire if found.
Note that it'll need all of this even if stored inside in perfect conditions; high heat or humidity in storage is gonna lead to more stuff like electrical gremlins caused by corrosion.
There also may be corrosion problems in the cooling system due to old antifreeze.
Door, sunroof, and hatch seals could be a problem; easy to visually inspect.
You'd probably have less to do on a well-maintained car with 75-100K miles on it, honestly.
Fix all this, get lucky with everything else, and it's a great car. But insurance may be steep for a college student... and the car is pretty much overpriced to begin with... Maybe worth $12-14K as is to someone who _really_ wants it. Too much needs doing. Worth $17.5 or more only if most everything above had already been done...
(I'll let someone else add up the parts cost; I'm afraid to try.) Not trying to rain on your parade, just being honest & thorough.
Others may have more to add; this was my brain dump.
Jim, empty feeling betwen his ears momentarily...
Immediate, right _now_!: Timing & balance shaft belts, water pump, all rollers & tensioner, both accessory drive belts.. This _cannot_ be postponed! The belt on there is living on borrowed time (about five or six years worth!) if it's original... wrecks the valves if it fails. Also all rubber fuel lines in the engine compartment (known failure point = toasted car).
Immediate future: Rebuild brake calipers, replace master cylinder & all rubber brake hoses (safety issue here); could upgrade to SS lines for a Clint Eastwood (few dollars more).
Next, all cooling system & heater hoses; there's a lot of them, most are custom molded, some are a PITA to get to, factory tends to use crimp-on clamps in the dam'dest places...hard to remove.
Next, clutch master & slave cylinder, and blue suction hose. Gonna fail soon if not already. Can strand you. Also plug wires.
Tires dry rot; look for cracks in the tread grooves, reject tire if found.
Note that it'll need all of this even if stored inside in perfect conditions; high heat or humidity in storage is gonna lead to more stuff like electrical gremlins caused by corrosion.
There also may be corrosion problems in the cooling system due to old antifreeze.
Door, sunroof, and hatch seals could be a problem; easy to visually inspect.
You'd probably have less to do on a well-maintained car with 75-100K miles on it, honestly.
Fix all this, get lucky with everything else, and it's a great car. But insurance may be steep for a college student... and the car is pretty much overpriced to begin with... Maybe worth $12-14K as is to someone who _really_ wants it. Too much needs doing. Worth $17.5 or more only if most everything above had already been done...
(I'll let someone else add up the parts cost; I'm afraid to try.) Not trying to rain on your parade, just being honest & thorough.
Others may have more to add; this was my brain dump.
Jim, empty feeling betwen his ears momentarily...
08-29-2002, 01:21 AM
#12
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hmm... im starting to think maybe this inst the car for me, thanks for being honest guys, thats what i needed. i currently drive a 2001 accord v6, so insurance couldnt be any higher for an old 944 than it is for my accord.
08-29-2002, 01:25 AM
#13
Race Car
My insurance is higher for my car than for my wife's '01 Chrysler minivan, and that's without a turbo! Of course I live in the insurance capital of the world <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
08-29-2002, 01:27 AM
#14
[quote]Originally posted by rcrick01:
<strong>hmm... im starting to think maybe this inst the car for me, thanks for being honest guys, thats what i needed. i currently drive a 2001 accord v6, so insurance couldnt be any higher for an old 944 than it is for my accord.</strong><hr></blockquote>
yes it can...... but call to find out...
I hate to say this here....but if you can throw 14K at a 944Turbo Plus 5 grand for repairs...why not get an 86-89 911? allot less work and more reliable.....
TO THE GROUP...Don't kill me for this suggestion.
<strong>hmm... im starting to think maybe this inst the car for me, thanks for being honest guys, thats what i needed. i currently drive a 2001 accord v6, so insurance couldnt be any higher for an old 944 than it is for my accord.</strong><hr></blockquote>
yes it can...... but call to find out...
I hate to say this here....but if you can throw 14K at a 944Turbo Plus 5 grand for repairs...why not get an 86-89 911? allot less work and more reliable.....
TO THE GROUP...Don't kill me for this suggestion.
08-29-2002, 02:07 AM
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Are 911's really more reliable? I've never even researched them (not because I couldn't own one, but they're a LOT more common than the 944s and I like slightly unique things).
Also, FWIW - I'm 28, have a flawless driving record and a 94~99 Acura Integra was 1/3rd more insurance ($1800/year at 50/100/50), while the 951 was only $1150/year for the same coverage. Shocked both my father (insurance agent of 30 years) and myself.
Also, FWIW - I'm 28, have a flawless driving record and a 94~99 Acura Integra was 1/3rd more insurance ($1800/year at 50/100/50), while the 951 was only $1150/year for the same coverage. Shocked both my father (insurance agent of 30 years) and myself.