adrial

Are there differences?
The 3 bar is just too much fuel for the car with Steve R chips...even though steve R says to run the chips with the 3 bar...

I'll probably go with the VDO gauge from lindsey that is pre-tapped. I wasn't looking forward to drilling that little ball in the first place.

I was looking at paragon, lindsey and vertex...they all look to be the same part?

Danno

Don't do it! Just do a dyno run with air-fuel ratio curve and sent it to SteveR. From those he can fine-tune the chips you have to be right on. What makes you think there's too much fuel anyway?

adrial

I think there's too much fuel because it smells it, the a/f gauge (cyberdyne) reads way up there on the scale...all but 1 or 2 bars lit and I really don't like the way the car behaves off boost and at part throttle/not redlining.

For example...
part throttle or WOT shifting at 4.5k or so...if you go for continued boost after the shift...the car will hesitate badly...sometimes I'll hear 2 pops from the exhaust. During that time if I look at the a/f gauge I see it off the scale. Lean, Rich..I don't know...I would assume rich.

If I push it to redline, it drives fine.

Also, if the car is settled into idle...and I blip the throttle...revs will drop suddenly and then start to build. I just changed back to the 2.5 bar FPR and less boost and it doesn't do this anymore.

With the 2.5 bar FPR now installed...and 13.5-14psi of boost dialed in vs 16 with the 3 bar (he recommends 16-17)...there is a NASTY lean spot around 4-4.5k...at lower boost levels (12 or so) its not a problem...

What it comes down to is that I am VERY unhappy with the chips...the car was faster AND drove better with the autothority stage 2 chips (which I thought were junk compared to Steve R).

I'm tired of half-@$$ mods...

for now I'll just turn the boost down to whatever it takes to get rid of the lean spot and get to the meet tomorow...

adrial

I've decided to go for some sort of EFI this winter...

The question now is should I go back to the 3 bar fpr and run 16psi although rich...or leave the 2.5bar in and go back to stock chips??

Flight_951

[quote]Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>What it comes down to is that I am VERY unhappy with the chips...the car was faster AND drove better with the autothority stage 2 chips (which I thought were junk compared to Steve R).</strong><hr></blockquote>

In a previous post, you said of SteveR's chips: "I think my car is just as fast at 16psi with Steve R chips as it was at 18psi with Autothority chips..." Were these not the 3bar chips???

Well, too bad for ME! After hearing that and other responses I just bought a set of 3bar chips from SteveR for my '89... I'm installing them next week.

He said to set fuel pressure at static 45psi at idle and dial it in with an adjustable FPR. Optimal results are usually from 42-46psi of fuel. Lindsey sells the AFPR for about $155 and the adjustability factor is key.

As for the fuel pressure gauge, I bought the Autometer electric one for inside the car and bought Lindsey's drilled end cap to install the sender on the fuel rail. I want to see what the pressure is under boost.

adrial

I THOUGHT the car was just as fast...Then I did some G-tech runs.
104.5mph trap speed in the 1/4 with Steve R @ 16psi and 107.5mph with autothority @ 18psi.

All he told me was to use the 3 bar...

How much fuel pressure does a 3 bar put out to the rail? more than 45psi I assume?

Let me know how they work for you...

--adrial, Off to the shower and then to the meet...

Flight_951

[quote]Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>All he told me was to use the 3 bar...

How much fuel pressure does a 3 bar put out to the rail? more than 45psi I assume?

Let me know how they work for you...
</strong><hr></blockquote>

3bar FPR at idle would be about 45psi.

According to my email exchange with Steve, the 3bar chips were tuned for 17-18psi of boost for a car that is anywhere from stock to mildly modified (wastegate, exhaust, etc.). He calls them the 3bar chips (and people like the 3bar regulator since it's relatively cheap) but the AFPR is recommended for tuning it just right.

He claims the stock injectors are only good until 16psi of boost at stock fuel pressure. Upping the fuel pressure without new chips is not recommended. He says these new chips should idle like a stocker and are meant for the street, but with 103 octane some people race them too.

He did say that keeping the boost down to 14-15psi would require taking the fuel down another few psi as well.

It sounds like at 16psi boost your car has about 5-6psi too much fuel. My advice is to keep the SteveR chips until you get the AFPR, then turn the FP down and decide if you like the chips. (As for why it runs rich right now, maybe you should put the boost at 17-18psi?)

I'll post the results and some photos of my setup after it's complete later this month.

adrial

Just want to let everybody know that my car is running well with the Steve R chips again...I dont know what was up...but the 3 bar fpr is back in and 16.5psi of boost dialed in...car runs strong, no problems. I replaced the AFM and adjusted the TPS/throttle stop a little...maybe (probably) that had something to do with it.

Anyway, have no fear..steve R chips aren't garbage like I thought they were.

Should have some dyno results to share in a couple weeks Lets hope my clutch holds ok...it was a little shakey last time...had to get it going just right... *crosses fingers*

I did go ahead and order the AFPR from lindsey along with the rail gauge pre-tapped for a total of $220. I figure that will still be usefull even after I go for standalone...give me the ability to run 14 or 15psi of boost...then turn up the fuel pressure and run 17.

Will have to do some more G-tech runs...

Danno

Adrial, good to hear you've exorcised the demons from your car. Was hoping that SteveR didn't put out a bad chip somehow...

With a standalone EFI system, you don't even have to adjust FP. You can dial in a fixed % gain in fuel across the board in less than 30-seconds!

adrial

I got my goodies in the mail, I guess I'll sell the AFPR when I go for standalone...

Anyway...the 3 bar fpr is giving me 38psi with the vac line to the FPR connected and 44psi with it disconnected. Flight_951, those fuel pressures you listed are with the vac line connected or disconnected? I assume disconnected?

guess I'll go install the AFPR and dial it down a few psi.

adrial

I don't understand this...
I dialed down fuel by 3psi from the 3bar settings...3rd gear hits a spot at 4200-4700 rpm that is off the scale on the a/f gauge...it's showing no LED's so I assume that is extremely lean...
When it would hit thar range, the car wasn't as smooth...and the car was noticably slower..so its not just the a/f gauge talking..

Why does 3 psi of fuel make such a big friggin difference?? Ima go give it the fuel back and see how it likes it...

EDIT:
I brought the fuel pressure up by 4psi...and the car drives great yet again...this is 1psi above the 3bar settings (45psi with the vac line disconnected)

Isn't 4500rpm suppose to be horrible RICH spot with most chips?

adrial

I am stumped...I dont understand why 3psi of fuel pressure makes such a big difference.

I have a fuel dampner on the way...should be here tuesday/wensday...hopefully that'll solve it... Any other suggestions as to what the problem is OR an explanation as to why lowering fuel pressure by 3-4psi makes such a huge difference?

tazman

Why wouldn't 3PSI make a big difference?

You are still forgeting about the inaccuracy of your tuning device. Just my thoughts on it.

tazman

Also just want to make sure you know that with most of the A/F gauge I have seen all the lights on is when the fuel ratio is suppose to be at 12.5:1.

adrial

It's not only the tuning device though, I can feel the car pulling very poorly through that rpm range...

If the car pulled great through that range, I wouldn't really care...but I can feel the car pulling poorly...so thats why I'm worried.

On the cyberdyne I think 9/10 LEDS is about 12.5:1...which is what I'm seeing.

I don't expect 3psi to make such a big difference because increasing fuel pressure from 2.5 bar to 3 bar results in an 8% increase in fuel flow.. .5 bar is ~7psi...You know I just explained why 3psi WOULD make sucha big difference... *slaps self*

thanks for making me think

--adrial