Driving Lights Installed
08-29-2002, 07:05 PM
#16
Drifting
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ArcticCzar,
Twice now I have had occurrences where I will look directly at a car, and because of its light blue/gray metallic paint, and its position on the horizon, it will blend right in to the sky. Put my vote down for daytime running lights.
Twice now I have had occurrences where I will look directly at a car, and because of its light blue/gray metallic paint, and its position on the horizon, it will blend right in to the sky. Put my vote down for daytime running lights.
08-29-2002, 09:38 PM
#18
Race Director
" the motorcycles are completely invisible in traffic again..."
Why's that? The distinction with driving-lights is visibility not uniqueness.
It's similar to the 3rd brake-light debate years ago. Some people were saying that by mandating 3rd brake-lights, once everyone has them, your accident rates will go right back up to normal because everyone will be the same. They were arguing this from the uniqueness point of view.
However, that may be one minor factor in the beginning, but the real value is in visibility. With 3rd brake-lights, you can see a car braking 4-5 cars ahead through the windows of the cars ahead. Regardless of whether everyone has them or not, if the car 5-cars ahead has a 3rd brake-light, it WILL be more visible than not having one.
Ok, back to the daylight driving-lights. Sure without cars having lights on, you may notice the unique single-motorcycle with lights on heading towards you; especially looking into a setting Sun, but you may not notice the three other cars around it. With everyone having having their lights on, the motorcycle will still be as visible, just that the other cars will too. So now instead of seeing just one vehicle bearing down on you, you'll see four!. It's the visibility factor that makes a difference.
FWIW, I got completely smashed up on my motorcycle one time, even WITH my lights on in flicker mode AND wearing a bright neon-orange helmet. The problem is...:
"To assume that we're too stupid to notice a moving 3,000 pound object speaks volumes about their mentality. And anybody who can't see a car unless it has lights on, has no business behind the wheel."
... some people shouldn't be on the road at ALL!!! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> Unfortunately, our laws and vehicle codes cater to the lowest common-denominator to allow everyone a chance to drive. That raises the numbers of stupid mistakes and accident. So we have to take as many measures as possible to deal with what IS currently happening out there, rather than live in an ideal world of what SHOULD be going on.
Why's that? The distinction with driving-lights is visibility not uniqueness.
It's similar to the 3rd brake-light debate years ago. Some people were saying that by mandating 3rd brake-lights, once everyone has them, your accident rates will go right back up to normal because everyone will be the same. They were arguing this from the uniqueness point of view.
However, that may be one minor factor in the beginning, but the real value is in visibility. With 3rd brake-lights, you can see a car braking 4-5 cars ahead through the windows of the cars ahead. Regardless of whether everyone has them or not, if the car 5-cars ahead has a 3rd brake-light, it WILL be more visible than not having one.
Ok, back to the daylight driving-lights. Sure without cars having lights on, you may notice the unique single-motorcycle with lights on heading towards you; especially looking into a setting Sun, but you may not notice the three other cars around it. With everyone having having their lights on, the motorcycle will still be as visible, just that the other cars will too. So now instead of seeing just one vehicle bearing down on you, you'll see four!. It's the visibility factor that makes a difference.
FWIW, I got completely smashed up on my motorcycle one time, even WITH my lights on in flicker mode AND wearing a bright neon-orange helmet. The problem is...:
"To assume that we're too stupid to notice a moving 3,000 pound object speaks volumes about their mentality. And anybody who can't see a car unless it has lights on, has no business behind the wheel."
... some people shouldn't be on the road at ALL!!! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> Unfortunately, our laws and vehicle codes cater to the lowest common-denominator to allow everyone a chance to drive. That raises the numbers of stupid mistakes and accident. So we have to take as many measures as possible to deal with what IS currently happening out there, rather than live in an ideal world of what SHOULD be going on.
08-29-2002, 10:27 PM
#19
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this thread wasnt intended to be a debate about likes and dislikes about lights, it is an informative thread on how to modify the way your lights are turned on.
socal,arcticczar, you guys obviously dont like day time running lights, i however dont like inconsiderate drivers that feel they have to have the brights on in the day time as well as the night, and for that i will pour as much light back to them as i can (dangerous; maybe, but it does get the point accross)
i dont get over zealous with the wattage on my lights and they are aimed correctly so they are lighting up the road and not oncomming traffic
[quote] Day lights, on the other hand, only exist to distract other drivers <hr></blockquote> no they are to inform the driver that there are other vehicles around them that they would normaly not see in various conditions. a distraction is some ******* on your bumper flashing you or idiots zipping in and out of lanes, or better yet some good looking hottie in a red 944(Michelle is that you
)
i like the idea of tring to get our cars up to date and this is a good mod <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
socal,arcticczar, you guys obviously dont like day time running lights, i however dont like inconsiderate drivers that feel they have to have the brights on in the day time as well as the night, and for that i will pour as much light back to them as i can (dangerous; maybe, but it does get the point accross)
i dont get over zealous with the wattage on my lights and they are aimed correctly so they are lighting up the road and not oncomming traffic[quote] Day lights, on the other hand, only exist to distract other drivers <hr></blockquote> no they are to inform the driver that there are other vehicles around them that they would normaly not see in various conditions. a distraction is some ******* on your bumper flashing you or idiots zipping in and out of lanes, or better yet some good looking hottie in a red 944(Michelle is that you
)i like the idea of tring to get our cars up to date and this is a good mod <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
08-29-2002, 10:45 PM
#20
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I agree with most of what you're saying - all of you. The third stop light...how did we ever get along without them? As far as the yahoos with brights - day or night - aimed right into my retinas...I just remember way back when I was a kid delivering pizzas (last year). Any brights that strayed my way got a precision-aimed one million candlepower spotlight right into the ojos!
08-29-2002, 11:11 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
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[quote]Originally posted by ArcticCzar:
<strong>Comparing seat belts with lighting is ridiculous. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Umm... I guess that's a response to my post; kinda hard to be sure with no quote.
But if you actually read what I wrote, you might notice that I was comparing the comments / reactions, _not_ seat belts to lights...
Of course, you may be accustomed to much longer sight distances than we have here in the mountains, as well as more forgiving road shoulders... makes defensive driving a lot easier.
BTW, I took a job-related professional defensive driving course in 1974... so yes, I'm old enough to remember the term, and the instructor's comment that "being seen is half of not being hit." I was driving 75,000 miles per year at work on these 2-lane mountain roads in that job... all weather, day & night, on a tight schedule... and accident free for the whole five years. So yes, I remember the phrase "defensive driving."
Jim, "Happy motoring!"
<strong>Comparing seat belts with lighting is ridiculous. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Umm... I guess that's a response to my post; kinda hard to be sure with no quote.
But if you actually read what I wrote, you might notice that I was comparing the comments / reactions, _not_ seat belts to lights...
Of course, you may be accustomed to much longer sight distances than we have here in the mountains, as well as more forgiving road shoulders... makes defensive driving a lot easier.
BTW, I took a job-related professional defensive driving course in 1974... so yes, I'm old enough to remember the term, and the instructor's comment that "being seen is half of not being hit." I was driving 75,000 miles per year at work on these 2-lane mountain roads in that job... all weather, day & night, on a tight schedule... and accident free for the whole five years. So yes, I remember the phrase "defensive driving."
Jim, "Happy motoring!"
08-29-2002, 11:32 PM
#22
Drifting
Hell, around here, people pull out in front of Firetrucks, and run into buses, both of which being the size of small homes, and having flashing lights...
I say safety is in acceleration, handling, braking, and ATTENTIVENESS.
I say safety is in acceleration, handling, braking, and ATTENTIVENESS.
08-29-2002, 11:35 PM
#23
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[quote]Originally posted by ArcticCzar:
<strong> I could go on for hours about the accidents I've avoided by being an alert driver - all avoided without the crutch of daytime running lights.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Perhaps, had you used daytime driving lights, you'd never have been in the "avoidance" mode at all.
While it's been awhile since I took Defensive Driving, I think the "key" word is "Defensive". What's the harm in anouncing your position by making sure as many drivers as possible can see you? Wouldn't that be the first step in a defensive driving posture?
Not intended as a flame, just my $0.02. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
<strong> I could go on for hours about the accidents I've avoided by being an alert driver - all avoided without the crutch of daytime running lights.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Perhaps, had you used daytime driving lights, you'd never have been in the "avoidance" mode at all.
While it's been awhile since I took Defensive Driving, I think the "key" word is "Defensive". What's the harm in anouncing your position by making sure as many drivers as possible can see you? Wouldn't that be the first step in a defensive driving posture?
Not intended as a flame, just my $0.02. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
08-29-2002, 11:40 PM
#24
Drifting
[quote] What's the harm in anouncing your position by making sure as many drivers as possible can see you? <hr></blockquote>
This is a very, very good point.
I will try honking my horn at random intervals and swerving once in a while to keep the drivers around me aware of my presence! I can see the positive effect on my insurance already!
This is a very, very good point.
I will try honking my horn at random intervals and swerving once in a while to keep the drivers around me aware of my presence! I can see the positive effect on my insurance already!
08-29-2002, 11:49 PM
#25
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[quote]Originally posted by keith:
<strong>I will try honking my horn at random intervals and swerving once in a while to keep the drivers around me aware of my presence! I can see the positive effect on my insurance already!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Perhaps a nice deer whistle for your front bumper...
<strong>I will try honking my horn at random intervals and swerving once in a while to keep the drivers around me aware of my presence! I can see the positive effect on my insurance already!
</strong><hr></blockquote>Perhaps a nice deer whistle for your front bumper...
08-30-2002, 12:18 AM
#26
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Whoa! I get home from work and all heck breaks loose. Before daytime running lights, us funeral director's asked people in a funeral procession's to drive with their lights on. Reason - to get noticed, beware of slow moving vehicles.
Now because of daytime running lights there are a number of FD's telling them to drive with brights on. This is a no no. Now its four way flashers and the lead vehicle gets a purple strobe light.
I do not find daytime lights distracting, they do not burn your retinas out. If a person finds them distracting then I think they have bigger problems to worry about. You can spot these people a mile away - they have their wipers on full blast for a few small droplets of rain. Talk about defensive driving, I get out of their way.
If you can notice a vehicle coming a little bit sooner, why wouldn't it help. Especially during dusk when those people who forgot to turn their headlights on with their wipers flapping at warp speed. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Now because of daytime running lights there are a number of FD's telling them to drive with brights on. This is a no no. Now its four way flashers and the lead vehicle gets a purple strobe light.
I do not find daytime lights distracting, they do not burn your retinas out. If a person finds them distracting then I think they have bigger problems to worry about. You can spot these people a mile away - they have their wipers on full blast for a few small droplets of rain. Talk about defensive driving, I get out of their way.
If you can notice a vehicle coming a little bit sooner, why wouldn't it help. Especially during dusk when those people who forgot to turn their headlights on with their wipers flapping at warp speed. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
08-30-2002, 09:16 AM
#27
Drifting
Keith - is that a history-joke? You know about the deer that hit me in my NA about 15 min. after installing the deer whistles (about 5 years ago)?!?
You have some sort of internet memory, my man!
You have some sort of internet memory, my man!
08-30-2002, 10:28 AM
#28
Instructor
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[quote]Originally posted by washington951:
<strong>is that the way it came from the factory? i'm not so sure.
i think originally, (in this car AND my previous 86 951) i had to pop up the headlights up in order for the fogs to operate. its been a while, tho - and i think it also might depend on what relay you have controlling your fogs....but i could be VERY wrong!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that many countries have different regulations regarding lights. As standard in my '86 951 (Switzerland), the fogs come on when the rotor switch is clicked around once. When I turn it again (and the headlights come up), the fogs go off.
I can understand this (to an extent) but the headlights do not only disable the front fogs, they also disable the rear fogs as well. Unless the fog is real "pea soup", you can happily drive with headlights and rear fogs (at least in my area) to enable you to see ahead and also warn people behind that you're there.
I also have no control over the "driving" lights (i.e. no switch). They seem to be used only as flashers when the full beams are on. Strange ... don't know if this is normal or not on other Euro 951's or if I've just missed something completely (highly possible
)
<strong>is that the way it came from the factory? i'm not so sure.
i think originally, (in this car AND my previous 86 951) i had to pop up the headlights up in order for the fogs to operate. its been a while, tho - and i think it also might depend on what relay you have controlling your fogs....but i could be VERY wrong!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think that many countries have different regulations regarding lights. As standard in my '86 951 (Switzerland), the fogs come on when the rotor switch is clicked around once. When I turn it again (and the headlights come up), the fogs go off.
I can understand this (to an extent) but the headlights do not only disable the front fogs, they also disable the rear fogs as well. Unless the fog is real "pea soup", you can happily drive with headlights and rear fogs (at least in my area) to enable you to see ahead and also warn people behind that you're there.
I also have no control over the "driving" lights (i.e. no switch). They seem to be used only as flashers when the full beams are on. Strange ... don't know if this is normal or not on other Euro 951's or if I've just missed something completely (highly possible
)
08-30-2002, 12:00 PM
#29
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[quote]Originally posted by keith:
<strong>You have some sort of internet memory, my man!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well somebody has to be the list historian - or is that class clown? I keep getting those two mixed up?!?
Ya'll have a great weekend! And remember, you can't give the "flash" if you don't have a light!
<strong>You have some sort of internet memory, my man!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well somebody has to be the list historian - or is that class clown? I keep getting those two mixed up?!?
Ya'll have a great weekend! And remember, you can't give the "flash" if you don't have a light!
06-17-2003, 07:48 PM
#30
Drifting
12v in - tied to pin 2 (grey/red) of existing driving light switch. AND bridged to pin two on itself
If the 12v input is bridged to the 12v output of the switch, doesn't this cause the switch to provide constant juice to the relay? Then the "off" position of the switch is useless, right? I'm no electrics expert, so please explain a little.
Thanks. <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />
If the 12v input is bridged to the 12v output of the switch, doesn't this cause the switch to provide constant juice to the relay? Then the "off" position of the switch is useless, right? I'm no electrics expert, so please explain a little.
Thanks. <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />