OT: F1 vs Champ cars
08-27-2002, 07:11 PM
#31
[quote]Originally posted by Damian in NJ:
<strong> Don't you think half the field would be F1 champs if they were in the red car?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
yes....thats why I like Kimi
<strong> Don't you think half the field would be F1 champs if they were in the red car?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
yes....thats why I like Kimi
08-27-2002, 07:19 PM
#32
You know, I think F1 is alright, but can you really compare it to CART? Yeah there both open wheel series, but that is where the similarities end. F1 has much more sophisticated technology and driver aides which help with produce the higher speeds and low lap times.
And I bet if F1, as sophisticated and technologically advanced as it is today, was an American series the events would be halted in the rain as CART races are.
And I bet if F1, as sophisticated and technologically advanced as it is today, was an American series the events would be halted in the rain as CART races are.
08-27-2002, 10:08 PM
#34
CART races are not stopped when raining, except on ovals. If there is standing water on the track, or track condition poses high injury risk, they red flag it.
F1 also red flags races when it deems conditions unsafe.
Nascar also brings rain tires to the races at Sears Point (or whatever its called now) and Watkins Glen. Never seem the used, that would be fun.
F1 also red flags races when it deems conditions unsafe.
Nascar also brings rain tires to the races at Sears Point (or whatever its called now) and Watkins Glen. Never seem the used, that would be fun.
08-27-2002, 10:19 PM
#35
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
[quote]Originally posted by Damian in NJ:
<strong>Ian, sorry to burst your bubble. F1 is the best technical exercise in the world. Racing, it ain't. Let's see, Ferrari spends over $300 million a year. Top CART budget would surprise me at 10% of that. Ten times the budget, for lap times roughly 10% less. You do the math.
Actually, both races a Montreal were comparable. Almost no passing!
Don't be a F1 snob. I've been following F1 since the early seventies, seen Gilles at the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, named my first son after Ronnie Peterson. But today's cars, with automatic gearboxes, traction control, launch control etc etc leave drivers out of the mix. Don't you think half the field would be F1 champs if they were in the red car?
Good racing is racing, oval, street, or road course. An unbiased mind would say the Saturday night race at Bristol was the event of the weekend. I put european rallying up there as well, though it's not wheel to wheel. If anyone thinks oval track drivers are nuts, how about the guys who could go off and not land for half a minute?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well good racing is good racing, but I do not deam oval racing good racing. Cars running carbs and using antequated chasis is not my idea of fun, when they are all the same car underneath, and the aero package nascar gives out determines the winning team? If you ask me, and I know you didn't that is just bull.
I watch most any for of motor racing I can get my eyes on, bikes, open wheel, touring cars, rally, scca run offs, and aything else that happens to be on. Rally car drivers are my favorite to watch and I think they have one heck of a set of ***** on them, and also the skill to match. But I still vote F1 drivers are the best. Watch Shui in the rain, or when the team tells him he needs to pick up the pace, he is the best. Sure he has the best car, but he is the best driver as well. I think something does need to be done to F1 to make it more entertaining, but that does not mean the cars, the drivers, the tracks, the history is not something to be honored.
knock me all you want for being an F1 snob, I just like motor racing and that is my favorite series. My friends who like nascar make fun of me, and I just let them go, I may not respect nascar but hey if it raises the interest in motor racing im all about.
<strong>Ian, sorry to burst your bubble. F1 is the best technical exercise in the world. Racing, it ain't. Let's see, Ferrari spends over $300 million a year. Top CART budget would surprise me at 10% of that. Ten times the budget, for lap times roughly 10% less. You do the math.
Actually, both races a Montreal were comparable. Almost no passing!
Don't be a F1 snob. I've been following F1 since the early seventies, seen Gilles at the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, named my first son after Ronnie Peterson. But today's cars, with automatic gearboxes, traction control, launch control etc etc leave drivers out of the mix. Don't you think half the field would be F1 champs if they were in the red car?
Good racing is racing, oval, street, or road course. An unbiased mind would say the Saturday night race at Bristol was the event of the weekend. I put european rallying up there as well, though it's not wheel to wheel. If anyone thinks oval track drivers are nuts, how about the guys who could go off and not land for half a minute?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well good racing is good racing, but I do not deam oval racing good racing. Cars running carbs and using antequated chasis is not my idea of fun, when they are all the same car underneath, and the aero package nascar gives out determines the winning team? If you ask me, and I know you didn't that is just bull.
I watch most any for of motor racing I can get my eyes on, bikes, open wheel, touring cars, rally, scca run offs, and aything else that happens to be on. Rally car drivers are my favorite to watch and I think they have one heck of a set of ***** on them, and also the skill to match. But I still vote F1 drivers are the best. Watch Shui in the rain, or when the team tells him he needs to pick up the pace, he is the best. Sure he has the best car, but he is the best driver as well. I think something does need to be done to F1 to make it more entertaining, but that does not mean the cars, the drivers, the tracks, the history is not something to be honored.
knock me all you want for being an F1 snob, I just like motor racing and that is my favorite series. My friends who like nascar make fun of me, and I just let them go, I may not respect nascar but hey if it raises the interest in motor racing im all about.
08-27-2002, 11:50 PM
#36
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I just saw what Ribs posted about the brake rotors being 6,000 a piece. I was at the Grand Prix of Houston 2 years ago and the Players team gave me the front rotors off of their car, little did I know at the time that they cost so much for the teams! One of the rotors has 13 signatures on it from all sorts of the teams. I intend on keeping the signed one, but do you think there would be a marke on ebay for the other one?
Thanks,
~Dustin Wayman
Thanks,
~Dustin Wayman
08-28-2002, 12:25 AM
#38
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I prefer formula one most of all because of the pure freedom and variety. CART and IRL have a narrow pallete of drivetrains to choose from - especially IRL. The cars have turbos and run on slicks in CART and IRL. F1 had to institute ribbed tires and normal aspiration to keep speeds under some control.
For me, racing is about the Unfair Advantage. I love racing that requires high level thought testing and design to give one car an unfair edge over the other. The best racing series ever took place when the cars were all different and variety was king. Ruiz, a Road and Track editor wrote about this in his column in the later pages of an issue a few months ago. I think he is right on the money. Without the existence of the unfair advantage Mark Donohue may have never been the unforgettable driver he was - he even mentions this. Mark admitted that he may not have always been the best driver - but with a well prepared car it didn't matter and Mark was the king of preparation. Without the unfair advantage we would never have seen Chapparals with outrageous wings and Porsche 917s that humiliated the best McLaren had to offer. This all happened before my time - but I can hope that someday the unfair advantage will be what it once was and make racing an adventure in design and driver. Formula One certainly is close (ferrari), CART is decent (look at team penske). Maybe cars have just gotten too fast...
I'll step down from the pulpit now
For me, racing is about the Unfair Advantage. I love racing that requires high level thought testing and design to give one car an unfair edge over the other. The best racing series ever took place when the cars were all different and variety was king. Ruiz, a Road and Track editor wrote about this in his column in the later pages of an issue a few months ago. I think he is right on the money. Without the existence of the unfair advantage Mark Donohue may have never been the unforgettable driver he was - he even mentions this. Mark admitted that he may not have always been the best driver - but with a well prepared car it didn't matter and Mark was the king of preparation. Without the unfair advantage we would never have seen Chapparals with outrageous wings and Porsche 917s that humiliated the best McLaren had to offer. This all happened before my time - but I can hope that someday the unfair advantage will be what it once was and make racing an adventure in design and driver. Formula One certainly is close (ferrari), CART is decent (look at team penske). Maybe cars have just gotten too fast...
I'll step down from the pulpit now
08-28-2002, 08:14 AM
#39
Ian, I get your point, but you're missing mine. I didn't knock f1, or the drivers. I'd like to see Schumacher drive the car. I just don't like to see him steer one. And steering is just about all those guys do. The cars can't miss a shift, they don't have to modulate the brake pedal, they don't have to feather an accelerator at the start, it's all done by computer. That is the apex of technology, but the opposite of racing.
Let's at least go to small wings and big slicks. Make the adhesion limit mechanical rather than aero, then let's see who's who in f1.
Let's at least go to small wings and big slicks. Make the adhesion limit mechanical rather than aero, then let's see who's who in f1.
08-28-2002, 08:25 AM
#40
Yes it would be nice to see F1/Cart drivers driving against each other with equal cars.It's interesting to see how many F1 champions are from the different countries.Some countries seems to produce more champions than the others.Is there more US champions than Mario Andretti ??
So far there has been 6 finnish F1 drivers.Only two of them has won F1 championship.
Olli
'88 951
So far there has been 6 finnish F1 drivers.Only two of them has won F1 championship.
Olli
'88 951
08-28-2002, 11:50 AM
#41
Nordschleife Master
[quote]Originally posted by Kool:
<strong>Pechstar
I want that Isle of Man tape. I could watch that everyday.
I am serious</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, you can't have it, because I haul it out every once in a while. If you want I could make a dub, but the quality of the original is so so, so the dub would be really crappy. Let me know. I have two, Joey in 1983 on the V4 and TT 91. TT91 has the rotary Norton.
Pechstar?
<strong>Pechstar
I want that Isle of Man tape. I could watch that everyday.
I am serious</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, you can't have it, because I haul it out every once in a while. If you want I could make a dub, but the quality of the original is so so, so the dub would be really crappy. Let me know. I have two, Joey in 1983 on the V4 and TT 91. TT91 has the rotary Norton.
Pechstar?
08-28-2002, 01:29 PM
#42
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
[quote]Originally posted by Damian in NJ:
<strong>Ian, I get your point, but you're missing mine. I didn't knock f1, or the drivers. I'd like to see Schumacher drive the car. I just don't like to see him steer one. And steering is just about all those guys do. The cars can't miss a shift, they don't have to modulate the brake pedal, they don't have to feather an accelerator at the start, it's all done by computer. That is the apex of technology, but the opposite of racing.
Let's at least go to small wings and big slicks. Make the adhesion limit mechanical rather than aero, then let's see who's who in f1.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Gotcha, I'm in the same camp with you, I would love for them to go small wings, and big slicks, maybe even have the cars resemble the F1 cars that Jim Clark and the drivers of that era drove. It would be much more of a test of skill. But I don't think that is the direction F1 will choose, mainly because part of the cache of F1 is that they are the fastest cars in the world. Small wings and Big slicks would make a lot slower for sure. I'll start the campain with anyone else that wants to see them, but it is a loosing battle.
<strong>Ian, I get your point, but you're missing mine. I didn't knock f1, or the drivers. I'd like to see Schumacher drive the car. I just don't like to see him steer one. And steering is just about all those guys do. The cars can't miss a shift, they don't have to modulate the brake pedal, they don't have to feather an accelerator at the start, it's all done by computer. That is the apex of technology, but the opposite of racing.
Let's at least go to small wings and big slicks. Make the adhesion limit mechanical rather than aero, then let's see who's who in f1.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Gotcha, I'm in the same camp with you, I would love for them to go small wings, and big slicks, maybe even have the cars resemble the F1 cars that Jim Clark and the drivers of that era drove. It would be much more of a test of skill. But I don't think that is the direction F1 will choose, mainly because part of the cache of F1 is that they are the fastest cars in the world. Small wings and Big slicks would make a lot slower for sure. I'll start the campain with anyone else that wants to see them, but it is a loosing battle.
08-28-2002, 01:43 PM
#43
FormulaOne10 wrote:
[quote] I prefer formula one most of all because of the pure freedom and variety. CART and IRL have a narrow pallete of drivetrains to choose from - especially IRL. The cars have turbos and run on slicks in CART and IRL. <hr></blockquote>
I am pretty sure IRL uses a naturally aspirated formula, not a turbo (and I think CART is heading that way). And it is all "formula" racing. By this I mean that all of the teams, whether CART, F1 or IRL, have certain limits that cannot be exceeded, whether that has to do with engine displacement, engine V angle, ride height, etc. Sure there are more manufacturers represented in F1, but then F1 is, for the most part, factory versus factory. IRL and CART are team versus team.
Besides, other than the efforts of the driver, races are won because of car setup, whether it has to do with suspension or compound or wing angle. Yeah they tweak the computers to make the thing run richer or leaner blah, blah, blah. But when you listen to the teams and the drivers they always talk about handling being the deciding factor.
And in CART the governing body randomly assignes the "sealed" popoff valves before the race, so it isn't even like you can gain advantage by raising your boost level.
[quote] I prefer formula one most of all because of the pure freedom and variety. CART and IRL have a narrow pallete of drivetrains to choose from - especially IRL. The cars have turbos and run on slicks in CART and IRL. <hr></blockquote>
I am pretty sure IRL uses a naturally aspirated formula, not a turbo (and I think CART is heading that way). And it is all "formula" racing. By this I mean that all of the teams, whether CART, F1 or IRL, have certain limits that cannot be exceeded, whether that has to do with engine displacement, engine V angle, ride height, etc. Sure there are more manufacturers represented in F1, but then F1 is, for the most part, factory versus factory. IRL and CART are team versus team.
Besides, other than the efforts of the driver, races are won because of car setup, whether it has to do with suspension or compound or wing angle. Yeah they tweak the computers to make the thing run richer or leaner blah, blah, blah. But when you listen to the teams and the drivers they always talk about handling being the deciding factor.
And in CART the governing body randomly assignes the "sealed" popoff valves before the race, so it isn't even like you can gain advantage by raising your boost level.
08-28-2002, 11:15 PM
#44
Nordschleife Master
Last kick at the Isle of Mann race, here's a new message from the race coordinator about this year's events:
MCUI UC Statement
Posted by: Mervyn Whyte Road Race Co Ordinator on 22/08/2002 From:
On behalf of the MCUI Ulster Centre Road Race Committee we wish to offer our sympathies to the wife and family circle of the late Gary Jess, and to the families of those riders who have lost their lives at the Manx this week.
Riders??? Full text at <a href="http://www.iomtt.com/news/FullStory.asp?StoryID=663" target="_blank">http://www.iomtt.com/news/FullStory.asp?StoryID=663</a>
MCUI UC Statement
Posted by: Mervyn Whyte Road Race Co Ordinator on 22/08/2002 From:
On behalf of the MCUI Ulster Centre Road Race Committee we wish to offer our sympathies to the wife and family circle of the late Gary Jess, and to the families of those riders who have lost their lives at the Manx this week.
Riders??? Full text at <a href="http://www.iomtt.com/news/FullStory.asp?StoryID=663" target="_blank">http://www.iomtt.com/news/FullStory.asp?StoryID=663</a>
08-29-2002, 02:16 PM
#45
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Lets set the record straight with kimi.
Kimi Räikkönen, a native of Lappeenranta in Finland, began karting in 1991 and competed in national kart races, Class Mini and then Class Raket Junior throughout 1991, 1992 and 1993. He also participated in the Finnish Cup in 1993, when he finished ninth. In 1994, he was able to improve to second and as a consequence was able to move up to the Formula A series in 1995.
He continued karting throughout the European series from 1996 to 1999 with some notable achievements. He was the Finnish Formula A champion in 1997 and 1998, and was also second in the European (karting) Grand Prix in 1998 and third in the Monaco Cup. In 1999, he entered his first Formula Renault race, with Haywood, where he finished third.
2000 saw him competing in British Formula Renault full-time, where he finished on the podium in all ten of the races that he contested and secured the championship crown despite only competing in those 10 events. Räikkönen also took part in three rounds of the European Formula Renault championship, where he won twice, took pole position twice and set two fastest lap times.
Kimi Räikkönen, a native of Lappeenranta in Finland, began karting in 1991 and competed in national kart races, Class Mini and then Class Raket Junior throughout 1991, 1992 and 1993. He also participated in the Finnish Cup in 1993, when he finished ninth. In 1994, he was able to improve to second and as a consequence was able to move up to the Formula A series in 1995.
He continued karting throughout the European series from 1996 to 1999 with some notable achievements. He was the Finnish Formula A champion in 1997 and 1998, and was also second in the European (karting) Grand Prix in 1998 and third in the Monaco Cup. In 1999, he entered his first Formula Renault race, with Haywood, where he finished third.
2000 saw him competing in British Formula Renault full-time, where he finished on the podium in all ten of the races that he contested and secured the championship crown despite only competing in those 10 events. Räikkönen also took part in three rounds of the European Formula Renault championship, where he won twice, took pole position twice and set two fastest lap times.