Engine fire, insurance says fair market value is.......
08-14-2002, 08:12 PM
#16
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Another thing I forgot to mention. Dont ever try to get anywhere with the insurance flunkie who talks to you on the phone. They are the first line of defense and dont know anything. Usually you need to ask who their boss is, say Jack Rogers, and then ask to speak with Jack Rogers boss. By then you are at least up 2-3 flights in the 50 flight bureaucracy and will at least your beef heard.
Aonther thing I do is act real dumb and stupid to make a point. Like I'd say,
- "Yeah can you patch me over to your Porsche or exotic sports car claim department. I don't think Im talking to the right gentleman. He doesnt appear knowledgeable in high-line automobiles."
- "Yeah Hi, someone who patched me to you gave me a payoff of $9000.00. Obviously a wire or two got crossed and someone didnt dots i's and cross t's on this one so I need the actual payoff amount for my car.<start humming and whistling>."
- "Tell me what you know about Porsches son. You don't know much about them? How can you appraise something you know so little about then. I dont know your wife either but I hear she's real cheap."
Aonther thing I do is act real dumb and stupid to make a point. Like I'd say,
- "Yeah can you patch me over to your Porsche or exotic sports car claim department. I don't think Im talking to the right gentleman. He doesnt appear knowledgeable in high-line automobiles."
- "Yeah Hi, someone who patched me to you gave me a payoff of $9000.00. Obviously a wire or two got crossed and someone didnt dots i's and cross t's on this one so I need the actual payoff amount for my car.<start humming and whistling>."
- "Tell me what you know about Porsches son. You don't know much about them? How can you appraise something you know so little about then. I dont know your wife either but I hear she's real cheap."
08-14-2002, 09:14 PM
#18
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I got a letter from my primary mechanic that stated my car's replacement value was conservatively $19,500. Then, to my amazement, my insurance company revalued the car at $19,500 and IT DID NOT CHARGE ME ANY EXTRA PREMIUM! Apparently, my car could be valued at up to $20,000 without it affecting the premium since it was classified as a sports car. They have different tranches for cars and you should all look into this!
I have Travelers insurance.
I have Travelers insurance.
08-15-2002, 07:55 AM
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Jeremy,
That sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Might have to talk to the insurance company after I get this settled. Talked to the lady today, she said she might have a salvage value for me tomorrow. I'm going to send her some receipts and see if I can nickel and dime her, like they are going to do to me.
Take care all...DMB, good luck with your car. UDPride, you make some good points, maybe it's time to take another approach.
That sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Might have to talk to the insurance company after I get this settled. Talked to the lady today, she said she might have a salvage value for me tomorrow. I'm going to send her some receipts and see if I can nickel and dime her, like they are going to do to me.
Take care all...DMB, good luck with your car. UDPride, you make some good points, maybe it's time to take another approach.
08-15-2002, 08:43 AM
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"Tell me what you know about Porsches son. You don't know much about them? How can you appraise something you know so little about then. I dont know your wife either but I hear she's real cheap."
i like that approach.... but thats just me
i like that approach.... but thats just me
08-15-2002, 04:18 PM
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I just got $5,790 from KBB.com for my mint condition 59K mile, 87 944 turbo. Thats less than half of what I paid for it 2 years ago.
OR <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
OR <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
08-15-2002, 04:59 PM
#23
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DMB-
If AllState has never heard of such a thing, you need to tell them if they are unable or unwilling to find you the same car, thats an indication to you that a) none exist and their payoff is low, or 2) the'yre afraid they'll take a bath on it because the difference between the price they quoted you and the price to buy a car in like condition is too large for them to bear.
After all, they are insuring your car. You have a right to expect them to replace the vehicle with a similar vehicle. They are insuring its value yes, but if the value is not equal to the car itself and they cant find an equal car, then they are not insuring the value after all, they are insuring a partial value of a "similar car" but not a "like car". Two or three small options in a vehicle can command ten times their innate value on the resale market -- but those do not show up in places like KBB.
One last thing. Insurance folks get values based on what they could sell the car for, not what you could sell it for. Since most people driving Porsches are smarter and more motivated than the car insurance Hyundai driving flunkies, its safe to say if they can get $10,000 for your car, they could have gotten $13,500 had they used their brain and put an ad in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, rather than in the Bumblefuque, GA, Hazard County Gazette. Who drives 250 miles to test drive a used Toyota Corolla? But its not unusual at all to shop an eight-state area for a Porsche.
If AllState has never heard of such a thing, you need to tell them if they are unable or unwilling to find you the same car, thats an indication to you that a) none exist and their payoff is low, or 2) the'yre afraid they'll take a bath on it because the difference between the price they quoted you and the price to buy a car in like condition is too large for them to bear.
After all, they are insuring your car. You have a right to expect them to replace the vehicle with a similar vehicle. They are insuring its value yes, but if the value is not equal to the car itself and they cant find an equal car, then they are not insuring the value after all, they are insuring a partial value of a "similar car" but not a "like car". Two or three small options in a vehicle can command ten times their innate value on the resale market -- but those do not show up in places like KBB.
One last thing. Insurance folks get values based on what they could sell the car for, not what you could sell it for. Since most people driving Porsches are smarter and more motivated than the car insurance Hyundai driving flunkies, its safe to say if they can get $10,000 for your car, they could have gotten $13,500 had they used their brain and put an ad in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, rather than in the Bumblefuque, GA, Hazard County Gazette. Who drives 250 miles to test drive a used Toyota Corolla? But its not unusual at all to shop an eight-state area for a Porsche.
08-15-2002, 10:29 PM
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Hi all,
I didn't get a call from the insurance company today about salvage value...however I did get my PCA Valuation form. So I thought i'd let you all see what is says about a 1987 944 Turbo. The valuation isn't for any one car in particular just a range for cars.
August 2002, 30 data points
Average Price Valuation: $11,140
Upper Price Range Limit: $14,000
(approximately 90% of all Porsches are below this)
Lower Price Range Limit:$8,280
(approximately 90% of all Porsches are above this)
Average price for 11-month period between 6 and 17-months prior to date: $11,520
"The Porsche Club of America believes that the above valuation represents the fair market price of the particular model/year described, as demonstrated by the broad database, and is valid for purposes of insurance or insurance claims."
Now let's see what Farmer's has to say about that...
I didn't get a call from the insurance company today about salvage value...however I did get my PCA Valuation form. So I thought i'd let you all see what is says about a 1987 944 Turbo. The valuation isn't for any one car in particular just a range for cars.
August 2002, 30 data points
Average Price Valuation: $11,140
Upper Price Range Limit: $14,000
(approximately 90% of all Porsches are below this)
Lower Price Range Limit:$8,280
(approximately 90% of all Porsches are above this)
Average price for 11-month period between 6 and 17-months prior to date: $11,520
"The Porsche Club of America believes that the above valuation represents the fair market price of the particular model/year described, as demonstrated by the broad database, and is valid for purposes of insurance or insurance claims."
Now let's see what Farmer's has to say about that...
08-15-2002, 11:49 PM
#25
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Cool. Glad to see you got the letter so fast. You'll note that it is signed by the valuation committee chairman. When I originally covered this topic with State Farm (just after I bought my car), they said that ANYTHING I could produce to substantiate value would be useful. These included, but were certainly not limited to:
- PCA Valuation Letter
- Original Bill of Sale from my purchase
- Ads that I had cut out in the search process
- An independent appraisal (such as the mechanic's mentioned above - great idea on a prepared car!)
- The Market Updates from Excellence
- The record of transaction prices on eBay
- Anything else you can get your hands on
Y'all get the picture. With these cars the burden falls upon us owners to defend the real pricing. Stuffing away any of the above items will help should that dreadful day come.
Best of luck in getting an equitable agreement struck and sorry again that you have to go through it.
Keep the shiny side up,
- PCA Valuation Letter
- Original Bill of Sale from my purchase
- Ads that I had cut out in the search process
- An independent appraisal (such as the mechanic's mentioned above - great idea on a prepared car!)
- The Market Updates from Excellence
- The record of transaction prices on eBay
- Anything else you can get your hands on
Y'all get the picture. With these cars the burden falls upon us owners to defend the real pricing. Stuffing away any of the above items will help should that dreadful day come.
Best of luck in getting an equitable agreement struck and sorry again that you have to go through it.
Keep the shiny side up,
08-29-2002, 06:40 AM
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Hi all,
Thanks for all the responses, I just wanted to close out the thread by saying I finally got my check(by check I mean screwed
) Well it isn't that bad, but my lady wouldn't budge a bit...she was an evil little witch of a woman I hope she never comes near me or i'll run bump her broom off the road. Anyway, let's see what $6,151 will get me in terms of parts for my car. 
I already ordered a few parts from the dealer so I can see if I can get my car up and running just so I know that it works, before I tear it all apart again to fix it right. Either way, I'm sure i'll have all sorts of posts for help as I begin tackling this engine fire mess, well questions after I use that handy little search button at the top of the page. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" /> Bye for now.
And please don't yell at me for not fighting hard enough, after two months I just want to fix my car and be done with it...oh and the funny thing is technically my car doesn't have a salvage title, all the insurance companies know it, but the lady said I don't have to disclose it if I sold the car...well, one I would if I did, and two...I will never sell my car, so it doesn't really matter.
Patrick
p.s. this rennlist thing is an addiction...time to go to sleep, my finger is numb from pressing the refresh button every minute to see if a new post has been made, i think i have problems...many, many problems, especially with spelling and grammer <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
Thanks for all the responses, I just wanted to close out the thread by saying I finally got my check(by check I mean screwed
) Well it isn't that bad, but my lady wouldn't budge a bit...she was an evil little witch of a woman I hope she never comes near me or i'll run bump her broom off the road. Anyway, let's see what $6,151 will get me in terms of parts for my car. I already ordered a few parts from the dealer so I can see if I can get my car up and running just so I know that it works, before I tear it all apart again to fix it right. Either way, I'm sure i'll have all sorts of posts for help as I begin tackling this engine fire mess, well questions after I use that handy little search button at the top of the page. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" /> Bye for now.
And please don't yell at me for not fighting hard enough, after two months I just want to fix my car and be done with it...oh and the funny thing is technically my car doesn't have a salvage title, all the insurance companies know it, but the lady said I don't have to disclose it if I sold the car...well, one I would if I did, and two...I will never sell my car, so it doesn't really matter.
Patrick
p.s. this rennlist thing is an addiction...time to go to sleep, my finger is numb from pressing the refresh button every minute to see if a new post has been made, i think i have problems...many, many problems, especially with spelling and grammer <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
08-29-2002, 07:35 AM
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if you don't cash it and didn't sign for it then you aren't locked in just yet. just do a quick search for you car in the papers and take them the evaluation and ads. if any one sold their cars at a dealer or something then that will surely help... don't give up. you can take them to court if you need to. I am about to send them a demand letter that they deal with my case sensibly or i'll haul their butts in to small claims... If your car was worth more then it was worth MORE!!! Like it was mentioned, just because they say so doesn't mean it is set in stone. Send them a letter and the check too. tell them you want 11k for it and see what they think. however you slice it, you don't want a salvaged car. they suck.
-andrew
-andrew
08-29-2002, 07:40 AM
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here are two people asking 9.6k for their 86 turbos...
<a href="http://autotrader.com/findacar/results.jtmpl?model=944&certified=n&start_year=1986&end_year=1988&min_pr ice=&max_price=&distance=200&x=38&y=5&advanced=y&advcd_on=n&make=POR&add ress=" target="_blank">http://autotrader.com/findacar/results.jtmpl?model=944&certified=n&start_year=1986&end_year=1988&min_pr ice=&max_price=&distance=200&x=38&y=5&advanced=y&advcd_on=n&make=POR&add ress=</a> 80002&search_type=used
you need to show them these sort of things...
good luck
andrew
<a href="http://autotrader.com/findacar/results.jtmpl?model=944&certified=n&start_year=1986&end_year=1988&min_pr ice=&max_price=&distance=200&x=38&y=5&advanced=y&advcd_on=n&make=POR&add ress=" target="_blank">http://autotrader.com/findacar/results.jtmpl?model=944&certified=n&start_year=1986&end_year=1988&min_pr ice=&max_price=&distance=200&x=38&y=5&advanced=y&advcd_on=n&make=POR&add ress=</a> 80002&search_type=used
you need to show them these sort of things...
good luck
andrew
08-29-2002, 07:50 AM
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Andrew,
Thanks for the encouragement, but I already cashed the check. Done and done. Now it is just time to rebuild it and be happy.
I actually faxed her copies of autotrader prices, cars.com prices and the PCA evaluation. She said that it has to be in this area. And the only dealer price was from some 87 944 turbo that sold in boulder at a dealer for cheap. Anyway, thanks again for the thoughts...but like I said, I already cashed the check.
, no i'm really not that sad...at least not yet, because I still think my car isn't that bad, but if I can't get it to start next week, then i might start leaving little men like this <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> , but until then <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
thanks again,
Patrick
Thanks for the encouragement, but I already cashed the check. Done and done. Now it is just time to rebuild it and be happy.
I actually faxed her copies of autotrader prices, cars.com prices and the PCA evaluation. She said that it has to be in this area. And the only dealer price was from some 87 944 turbo that sold in boulder at a dealer for cheap. Anyway, thanks again for the thoughts...but like I said, I already cashed the check.
, no i'm really not that sad...at least not yet, because I still think my car isn't that bad, but if I can't get it to start next week, then i might start leaving little men like this <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> , but until then <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> thanks again,
Patrick
08-29-2002, 07:51 AM
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here are two people asking 9.6k for their 86 turbos...
<a href="http://autotrader.com/findacar/results.jtmpl?model=944&certified=n&start_year=1986&end_year=1988&min_pr ice=&max_price=&distance=200&x=38&y=5&advanced=y&advcd_on=n&make=POR&add ress=" target="_blank">http://autotrader.com/findacar/results.jtmpl?model=944&certified=n&start_year=1986&end_year=1988&min_pr ice=&max_price=&distance=200&x=38&y=5&advanced=y&advcd_on=n&make=POR&add ress=</a> 80002&search_type=used
you need to show them these sort of things...
good luck
andrew
<a href="http://autotrader.com/findacar/results.jtmpl?model=944&certified=n&start_year=1986&end_year=1988&min_pr ice=&max_price=&distance=200&x=38&y=5&advanced=y&advcd_on=n&make=POR&add ress=" target="_blank">http://autotrader.com/findacar/results.jtmpl?model=944&certified=n&start_year=1986&end_year=1988&min_pr ice=&max_price=&distance=200&x=38&y=5&advanced=y&advcd_on=n&make=POR&add ress=</a> 80002&search_type=used
you need to show them these sort of things...
good luck
andrew