Sunroof gear replacement...Are these them?
08-26-2002, 10:54 PM
#16
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Check out this article --> <a href="http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/944_Sunroof/944_sunroof.htm" target="_blank">http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/944_Sunroof/944_sunroof.htm</a>
I used it to replace mine and it worked great. Look around for prices, I've seen quite a variance, and I got mine for under $4 each. I only needed one but I ordered an extra, and I was glad I did cause I wrecked one. I put one in and the first time I tested it I wrecked it. Luckily I hadn't put everything back together so I put in the other one and it's working great. If you still have one good one you're in better shape than if both are wrecked (I still had one good one). What I did was open the sunroof all the way, then make sure the lifting arm on the one I was replacing had the same number of teeth showing as the good arm did.
I used it to replace mine and it worked great. Look around for prices, I've seen quite a variance, and I got mine for under $4 each. I only needed one but I ordered an extra, and I was glad I did cause I wrecked one. I put one in and the first time I tested it I wrecked it. Luckily I hadn't put everything back together so I put in the other one and it's working great. If you still have one good one you're in better shape than if both are wrecked (I still had one good one). What I did was open the sunroof all the way, then make sure the lifting arm on the one I was replacing had the same number of teeth showing as the good arm did.
08-27-2002, 04:29 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Robby:
<strong>
If you're going this route, may I suggest getting a carbon fibre panel to replace the 19lb piece of lead?! You can also get rid of the motor, plus other pieces- saving you at least 20 total lbs, as the carbon fibre panels shouldn't weigh more than 1lb- less than 3 even if they're double paneled w/something (insulation?) to add thickness in the middle....
Now, would SOMEONE PLEASE tell me if i'm on the right track about how this damn piece mounts to the ceiling? Are there mounting screws or something up under there that can only be accessed by pulling the bottom plate off or something? HOW DOES IT MOUNT?
Thanks,
Robby</strong><hr></blockquote>
For the price to install the carbon fibre goodie, you might aswell get porsche to repair the broken sunroof hehehe.
<strong>
If you're going this route, may I suggest getting a carbon fibre panel to replace the 19lb piece of lead?! You can also get rid of the motor, plus other pieces- saving you at least 20 total lbs, as the carbon fibre panels shouldn't weigh more than 1lb- less than 3 even if they're double paneled w/something (insulation?) to add thickness in the middle....
Now, would SOMEONE PLEASE tell me if i'm on the right track about how this damn piece mounts to the ceiling? Are there mounting screws or something up under there that can only be accessed by pulling the bottom plate off or something? HOW DOES IT MOUNT?
Thanks,
Robby</strong><hr></blockquote>
For the price to install the carbon fibre goodie, you might aswell get porsche to repair the broken sunroof hehehe.
08-27-2002, 10:48 AM
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I can't do THIS Sunday--going to the Shore for the long weekend.
How does Sunday, Sept 8th work for you guys? Damian's driveway is the biggest...winner by default!
Robby--I am about as clueless as you are about fixing the gears...I think it's getting clearer, and it HAS to be simpler than the write-ups (servo switch #1, #2, clutches, etc)!
CrazyAndy's instructions seem easy to follow...We could print them up, along with the rest, and have them as a reference in the driveway! Also, another week gives me time to order another 2 gears....just in case!
How does Sunday, Sept 8th work for you guys? Damian's driveway is the biggest...winner by default!
Robby--I am about as clueless as you are about fixing the gears...I think it's getting clearer, and it HAS to be simpler than the write-ups (servo switch #1, #2, clutches, etc)!
CrazyAndy's instructions seem easy to follow...We could print them up, along with the rest, and have them as a reference in the driveway! Also, another week gives me time to order another 2 gears....just in case!
08-27-2002, 11:11 AM
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Andy- I think you're right, but my gears seem to be fine- I judst need to find out how they actually mount to the roof- I mean the exposed screws I see are the ones that hold it together- I need to know where the ones are that hold the whole thing up- I assume they're inside the box, but I'm a little afraid to go in there unless I'm sure- I don't want that stuff to all fall apart...
08-27-2002, 07:01 PM
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Ok, here goes...
Here's what is supposed to happen:
1. Turn the ignition to the first position (position 1). In this key
position, and ONLY this key position, pressing the bottom of the sunroof
switch should unlock the sunroof. This means that the arms will come down
all the way and stop, freeing up the sunroof to come off.
2. With the key still in the first position, but now pressing the upper
portion of the sunroof switch, the arms should move up and engage the
sunroof and lock it in place.
Both 1 and 2 above should NOT require you to let up on the button. The
micro switches should stop the arms at the proper time.
Now let's talk about the ignition key in position 2. (this is the click
right before the starter engages, this is the same as when you're driving
down the road)
3. With the key in position 2, pressing the bottom of the sunroof switch
should make the sunroof raise. Once again it should automatically stop
without you letting up on the switch.
4. With the key in position 2, and the sunroof raised, pressing the upper
portion of the sunroof switch should make the sunroof move to the closed
position. Once again it should automatically stop without you letting up
on
the switch. The sunroof should also be locked down tight enough so that
if
you try to 'press up' on it with your hand, it should not move.
Now that you know what it 'should' do, you'll have a goal to work for.
My instructions below will try to get you to adjust it WITHOUT having to
gain access to the gear assemblies on the sunroof.
NOTE: If you're sunroof gears are stripped, or if one side of the sunroof
is not level with the other side, then you'll need to straighten that out
BEFORE you press on with this switch adjustment checklist. That procedure
will be in a subsequent checklist.
5. Gain access to the motor. It's fairly easy to do. It's in the rear
compartment, drivers side, behind the side carpet.
6. You'll need a 17mm socket wrench to manually turn the sunroof.
There's
a round access cover on the motor assembly. Remove it and you'll see the
nut. SLOWLY turn the nut until you're satisfied that the sunroof is fully
locked in place (you can't push up on it). Turning the nut
counter-clockwise raises it.
7. Remove the three 10mm nuts that hold the motor assembly in place and
move it so that you can see the rear of the assembly (don't remove the
cable!)
Before we go any further, I need to describe what you SHOULD be seeing at
this moment. Look at the side of the assembly with the nut you turned.
You
will see two micro-switches at the top of the assembly. Of course Porsche
named them in reverse, the top switch is switch II, the bottom one is
switch
one. Switch one is the key switch that tends to goof up the most and
cause
problems. Here's the fun part, it's usually not because the switch is
broke, it's usually because the mounting bracket has bent a little over
the
years causing the micro-switch not to make correctly. There is a third
switch on the back of the assembly that hopefully, you won't have to deal
with.
Now back to work.
8. With the sunroof carefully locked in place manually, look closely at
the
underside of the micro-switches. The little metal arm on switch 1 (bottom
switch) should be close to the ceramic part of the switch. In other
words,
the switch should be actuated, or made.
9. Now look at switch 2, it's metal arm should be down (not actuated).
The goal is to have the sunroof locked in place, switch 1 made, and switch
2
not made. Once these switches are properly set, your sunroof will
probably
work correctly without you having to do anything else.
10. On the rear of the motor assembly, you'll see a white plastic cam
attached to a cable. We need to make sure that the white actuating arm,
or
cam, is in it's proper place. Look at the area around the switch arms.
See
how the cam has an indentation so that switch 2's arm can be down, while
the
cam is forcing switch 1's arm up.
Spend some time here and make sure you see the cam and how it actuates the
micro-switches. You can move the sunroof manually at this point to get a
feel for whether the switches are engaging or not. You should be able to
hear a faint 'click' when the switches are engaged. If you don't, don't
sweat it, it's VERY faint. Don't forget to carefully position the sunroof
to the fully locked position when you're done.
Back to the adjustment.
11. Looking at the micro-switches, look to see if they are evenly
parallel
to the plastic cam. If they're not, CAREFULLY bend the switch mounting
bracket with a pair of needle nose pliers until they are evenly parallel.
STOP!!
12. Once you've done this, ops check what you've done, you've probably
already fixed the problem. Just put the motor assembly back in place with
two bolts, finger tight, and then check to see if the sunroof works
correctly.
13. If it doesn't, then try bending the mounting bracket a little so that
switch 1 (bottom one) is a little closer to the cam than the other
micro-switch. Then ops check it again.
14. If this still doesn't fix it, unscrew the micro-switches and move
them
left to right to get switch 1 to be engaged, and switch 2 not engaged.
Then
ops check it again.
15. If it's still not functioning correctly, you may have a bad switch.
Find someone that has an ohm-meter and have them check to see if the
switch
is functioning correctly. If it is, there are two relays mounted on the
motor assembly. Take them out carefully one at a time and gently tap them
on the ground, then re-install them.
then i'd suggest that you check the clutch slip -might actually want to do this first, or do it now and have another set of gears ready to go when you strip em out again!!!!
according to the factory manuals:
1. run out elements to the 'lifting roof opened about halfway' position to avoid damaging the gears or raisign cable (not necessary when electric drive is disconnected on the raising cable).
2. turn hexagon nut A (the biggest one on the the shaft on the roof motor - the one most outboard) with a size 21mm wrench socket and torque wrench. the slip clutch must slip at a torque of 6 +/- 0.5 Nm.
Remarks
The breaking loose torue could be considerably greater, so that this test must be repeated six times in steps of 60 degrees.
Adjusting slip clutch:
The torque must be correcte if the slip clutch test produces any deviation ofrom the specified torque of 6 +/- 0.5 Nm.
1. Unscrew lock nut (the smallest one, most inboard on motor shaft)
2. Adjust the torque by turning the hexagon nut B (the middle one - inboard of the 21mm one from earlier)
Loosening the nexagon nut reduces the torque (THIS IS THE ONE YOU WANT!!)
Tightening the hexagon nut increases the torque.
tighten lock nut with Loctite No. 270 and tighten with 15 Nm torque +/- 2.
Here's what is supposed to happen:
1. Turn the ignition to the first position (position 1). In this key
position, and ONLY this key position, pressing the bottom of the sunroof
switch should unlock the sunroof. This means that the arms will come down
all the way and stop, freeing up the sunroof to come off.
2. With the key still in the first position, but now pressing the upper
portion of the sunroof switch, the arms should move up and engage the
sunroof and lock it in place.
Both 1 and 2 above should NOT require you to let up on the button. The
micro switches should stop the arms at the proper time.
Now let's talk about the ignition key in position 2. (this is the click
right before the starter engages, this is the same as when you're driving
down the road)
3. With the key in position 2, pressing the bottom of the sunroof switch
should make the sunroof raise. Once again it should automatically stop
without you letting up on the switch.
4. With the key in position 2, and the sunroof raised, pressing the upper
portion of the sunroof switch should make the sunroof move to the closed
position. Once again it should automatically stop without you letting up
on
the switch. The sunroof should also be locked down tight enough so that
if
you try to 'press up' on it with your hand, it should not move.
Now that you know what it 'should' do, you'll have a goal to work for.
My instructions below will try to get you to adjust it WITHOUT having to
gain access to the gear assemblies on the sunroof.
NOTE: If you're sunroof gears are stripped, or if one side of the sunroof
is not level with the other side, then you'll need to straighten that out
BEFORE you press on with this switch adjustment checklist. That procedure
will be in a subsequent checklist.
5. Gain access to the motor. It's fairly easy to do. It's in the rear
compartment, drivers side, behind the side carpet.
6. You'll need a 17mm socket wrench to manually turn the sunroof.
There's
a round access cover on the motor assembly. Remove it and you'll see the
nut. SLOWLY turn the nut until you're satisfied that the sunroof is fully
locked in place (you can't push up on it). Turning the nut
counter-clockwise raises it.
7. Remove the three 10mm nuts that hold the motor assembly in place and
move it so that you can see the rear of the assembly (don't remove the
cable!)
Before we go any further, I need to describe what you SHOULD be seeing at
this moment. Look at the side of the assembly with the nut you turned.
You
will see two micro-switches at the top of the assembly. Of course Porsche
named them in reverse, the top switch is switch II, the bottom one is
switch
one. Switch one is the key switch that tends to goof up the most and
cause
problems. Here's the fun part, it's usually not because the switch is
broke, it's usually because the mounting bracket has bent a little over
the
years causing the micro-switch not to make correctly. There is a third
switch on the back of the assembly that hopefully, you won't have to deal
with.
Now back to work.
8. With the sunroof carefully locked in place manually, look closely at
the
underside of the micro-switches. The little metal arm on switch 1 (bottom
switch) should be close to the ceramic part of the switch. In other
words,
the switch should be actuated, or made.
9. Now look at switch 2, it's metal arm should be down (not actuated).
The goal is to have the sunroof locked in place, switch 1 made, and switch
2
not made. Once these switches are properly set, your sunroof will
probably
work correctly without you having to do anything else.
10. On the rear of the motor assembly, you'll see a white plastic cam
attached to a cable. We need to make sure that the white actuating arm,
or
cam, is in it's proper place. Look at the area around the switch arms.
See
how the cam has an indentation so that switch 2's arm can be down, while
the
cam is forcing switch 1's arm up.
Spend some time here and make sure you see the cam and how it actuates the
micro-switches. You can move the sunroof manually at this point to get a
feel for whether the switches are engaging or not. You should be able to
hear a faint 'click' when the switches are engaged. If you don't, don't
sweat it, it's VERY faint. Don't forget to carefully position the sunroof
to the fully locked position when you're done.
Back to the adjustment.
11. Looking at the micro-switches, look to see if they are evenly
parallel
to the plastic cam. If they're not, CAREFULLY bend the switch mounting
bracket with a pair of needle nose pliers until they are evenly parallel.
STOP!!
12. Once you've done this, ops check what you've done, you've probably
already fixed the problem. Just put the motor assembly back in place with
two bolts, finger tight, and then check to see if the sunroof works
correctly.
13. If it doesn't, then try bending the mounting bracket a little so that
switch 1 (bottom one) is a little closer to the cam than the other
micro-switch. Then ops check it again.
14. If this still doesn't fix it, unscrew the micro-switches and move
them
left to right to get switch 1 to be engaged, and switch 2 not engaged.
Then
ops check it again.
15. If it's still not functioning correctly, you may have a bad switch.
Find someone that has an ohm-meter and have them check to see if the
switch
is functioning correctly. If it is, there are two relays mounted on the
motor assembly. Take them out carefully one at a time and gently tap them
on the ground, then re-install them.
then i'd suggest that you check the clutch slip -might actually want to do this first, or do it now and have another set of gears ready to go when you strip em out again!!!!
according to the factory manuals:
1. run out elements to the 'lifting roof opened about halfway' position to avoid damaging the gears or raisign cable (not necessary when electric drive is disconnected on the raising cable).
2. turn hexagon nut A (the biggest one on the the shaft on the roof motor - the one most outboard) with a size 21mm wrench socket and torque wrench. the slip clutch must slip at a torque of 6 +/- 0.5 Nm.
Remarks
The breaking loose torue could be considerably greater, so that this test must be repeated six times in steps of 60 degrees.
Adjusting slip clutch:
The torque must be correcte if the slip clutch test produces any deviation ofrom the specified torque of 6 +/- 0.5 Nm.
1. Unscrew lock nut (the smallest one, most inboard on motor shaft)
2. Adjust the torque by turning the hexagon nut B (the middle one - inboard of the 21mm one from earlier)
Loosening the nexagon nut reduces the torque (THIS IS THE ONE YOU WANT!!)
Tightening the hexagon nut increases the torque.
tighten lock nut with Loctite No. 270 and tighten with 15 Nm torque +/- 2.
08-27-2002, 10:46 PM
#23
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Thanks Brian! That is pretty comprehensive! Yet still, I feel like I am reading a guide on how to build your own microprocessor!
What say we meet at the AutoX (Meadowlands, right?), THEN do the sunroofs after, if it's not too late??
What say we meet at the AutoX (Meadowlands, right?), THEN do the sunroofs after, if it's not too late??
08-27-2002, 11:39 PM
#25
Race Car
[quote]Originally posted by AndyK:
<strong>Thanks Brian! That is pretty comprehensive! Yet still, I feel like I am reading a guide on how to build your own microprocessor!
What say we meet at the AutoX (Meadowlands, right?), THEN do the sunroofs after, if it's not too late??</strong><hr></blockquote>
Microprocessor I can do, for the sunroof I'm gonna have to read that again!
Damian's right, 2 day autocross that weekend, I usually make it home between 4 and 5, completely drained, so I'm not thinking that after an event would be a good plan.
Brian, That write up make's it sound easy, Thanks!
How did I get to be head wrench?!?
<strong>Thanks Brian! That is pretty comprehensive! Yet still, I feel like I am reading a guide on how to build your own microprocessor!
What say we meet at the AutoX (Meadowlands, right?), THEN do the sunroofs after, if it's not too late??</strong><hr></blockquote>
Microprocessor I can do, for the sunroof I'm gonna have to read that again!
Damian's right, 2 day autocross that weekend, I usually make it home between 4 and 5, completely drained, so I'm not thinking that after an event would be a good plan.
Brian, That write up make's it sound easy, Thanks!
How did I get to be head wrench?!?
08-28-2002, 12:11 AM
#26
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just two little points to stress here:
1 - make SURE the sunroof clutch is adjusted properly - its EASY and is KEY to making sure you don't strip the gears again. you just need a small torque wrench...and the torque setting of the cluch is WICKED LOW.
<img src="graemlins/oops.gif" border="0" alt="[oops]" />
2 - have an extra set of gears on hand 'just in case'....ask me how i know.
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
1 - make SURE the sunroof clutch is adjusted properly - its EASY and is KEY to making sure you don't strip the gears again. you just need a small torque wrench...and the torque setting of the cluch is WICKED LOW.
<img src="graemlins/oops.gif" border="0" alt="[oops]" />
2 - have an extra set of gears on hand 'just in case'....ask me how i know.
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
08-28-2002, 12:50 AM
#27
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Cool Brian--I am gonna order another set of expensive CRAP gears just in case.
So...when's the next best date??
And, Adrial said he would be the head wrench, given he has done it before...
So...when's the next best date??
And, Adrial said he would be the head wrench, given he has done it before...
08-28-2002, 02:05 AM
#29
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nj ax? bleh =p
hey washington: did you write those instructions?
amazing stuff
ok so question (if you wrote it):
if my sunroof goes up and down fine but doesnt really do much when the key is in pos1 or 2.. and also the arms will go down until i tell them to stop.they dont stop at a locking position. whats the prob? metal clips on the switches back there?
hey washington: did you write those instructions?
amazing stuff
ok so question (if you wrote it):
if my sunroof goes up and down fine but doesnt really do much when the key is in pos1 or 2.. and also the arms will go down until i tell them to stop.they dont stop at a locking position. whats the prob? metal clips on the switches back there?
08-28-2002, 02:11 AM
#30
Race Car
[quote]Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>I'll be at the autox september 7th and 8th with Dave, trying to kick his @$$.
How about the weekend after that? 14th or 15th?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hope you can back up that tough talk
I got something up both those days, but they might not be all day things, I'll check with the Mrs. Doing it at Damian's means I can drop by sometime during the day. I'm on the wait list for the DE @ Pocono the following weekend, but it doesn't look good...
<strong>I'll be at the autox september 7th and 8th with Dave, trying to kick his @$$.
How about the weekend after that? 14th or 15th?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hope you can back up that tough talk
I got something up both those days, but they might not be all day things, I'll check with the Mrs. Doing it at Damian's means I can drop by sometime during the day. I'm on the wait list for the DE @ Pocono the following weekend, but it doesn't look good...