jim968

Well, I'm gonna say that my '88 na was as reliable as any car I've owned... yes, it took a year's tinkering to get it there, and the running costs were higher than on my bought-new '83 GTI or '89 GLI, but it was also a lot more car.

Unfortunately, the 968 has had more ...uh..."issues"... but even so, they're been minor, and never caused a dead-by-the-side-of-the-road stranding. All gave ample warning, and most were more nearly "less-than-perfect" kinds of things rather than "flat-***-broke" things.

(I'm just back to the office after shipping the starter core out for the $250 core refund. Spent all my spare time last week replacing it & the clutch master & slave. But there's a feeling of accomplishment...sort of.)

But yeah, I'd _hate_ to have it as an "only" car.

Jim, now returning you to the joyous, care-free lifestyle of Porsche ownership... <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

billybones

You are definitley in hate mode..understandable.. It is that yellow light you can take at 45 with out a worry, no lean and the thought you have plenty left to leave in the dust if necessary...

billybones

One last thought I have to leave you with. In your very original post you called IT a machine???? how many others do you feel that way about? A PORSCHE is just that a MACHINE... not a car....

Sean

Okay, I will jump in here for minute because this is a meaty topic.

With regard to the Boxster, the base model may arguably be underpowered. But the same criticism could be leveled at my 1986 NA 944 - and I still think the 944 is a great car.

The 'S' brakes are Brembo Big Reds - enough said.

The 'S' engine has 252 horsepower; not a
supercar, but plenty of power.

Boxster handling is unparalled, thanks to midengine design.

Appearance is pretty timeless to me, inspired by the 550 of yesteryear.

I agree that the base interiors have too much plastic (but again, the same could be said of my 944 interior). You have to fork over boucoup dollars to upgrade the interiors; it's possible to have a very nice Boxster interior, but it is costly.

I think the core problem that people have with Boxster is that you have a bunch of non-enthusiast owners who have no idea what they are driving. This has always been the case with new Porsche models. Over the next 5-10 years, we will see more Boxsters come into the hands of Porsche enthusiasts.

Bear in mind that a lot of the criticisms you level against the Boxster are EXACTLY the same as what 911 owners said about the 944/951.

Why buy a 986S instead of a M3 Cab? There are a lot of good reasons, but I'll leave that for another post.

With respect to Porsche's present emphasis on crature comforts rather than racing performance, you may have a point. But the primary indicator of this trend is the lack of a true dry sump engine in the 986/996 lines. I'm afraid that these new engines will not withstand extreme racing conditions, due to oil starvation issues.

Note also that the factory has no plans to race the Carrera GT supercar! It is intended to be a monster street car, but will never be raced.

Water944t

My girl would probably throw a rod if I called her a machine. Just spit the oil out and die.

It isnt for the faint o heart, or flat of wallet.

But Porsche ownership has its rewards all the same.

Just ask the guy who I took out yesterday and gave him his first trip over 140MPH. He was the whitest black guy I have seen in a long time, lol. My door handles have grip marks in them now.

"Ooooo-Oooooo....unnnngghhh.....pant, pant, unnnngghhhhh, holy cow man! Ooooooo! How fast are we going?"


<img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

tod84944

I can speak on both the 944 and 2001 mustang gt.You must be seeing your 944 om a different light than I see mine. My 944 is my toy. Yes there is a lot of work sometimes, but it is all worth it when I get behind the wheel and get to see the end results in my handy work. I also own a 2001 GT. This is a musle car. It is not the refined car as a 944. It is a pure american tire smoking, gear jerking muscle car. I will say this also, I don't see my mustang having as much reatined value when it is 18 as my 84 944. Oh by the way I WORK FOR FORD. I have owned 4 v-8 mustangs. They are great cars and I love them , but see a 944 and mustang for what each is. AS far as the remark that Mustangs are ugly. Why do you think we sell so many of them? Maybe you see things diffrent than others. Think about it.

P944forScott

[quote]Originally posted by ELLSSUU:
<strong>Personally, I kind of like the Boxster, but I do agree that its seems as if Porsche has gotten off track. I watched the Speedvision show last week and it just left me feeling that Porsche has a lot of unfinished business, like racing, somewhat affordable stripped exotic cars for the public etc. etc.

I don't mind the SUV as long as it enbles Porsche to pickup on the product line in other places.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I watched the speed vision show also and I was somewhat saddened that Porsche has gone so far away from it's roots. When the company started racing was seen as the only way to improve RELIABILITY and performance. Now it seems that they a content to ride on there name/reputation to sell expensive luxury sports cars.


<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

Tabor

The 924/931/944/951/968 never had a dry sump system and Porsche still raced the 924 Carrera GT. Also, they may have raced the 951 Cup (I don't really know about this one).

As for the 911 not having a dry sump system, that is only partially true. Doesn't the GT2 (and the old GT3) have a dry sump motor? (correct me if I am wrong). Wouldn't these be the 911s that would be racing anywase?

Sean

Yes, I believe that the GT2 (and the old GT3) have dry sump motors.

It is also my understanding that the 996 Turbo possesses a different engine than the stock 996. The Turbo has a watercooled turbocharged version of the 993 engine - which I believe has a dry sump?

I know that there has been some carping about what Porsche marketing deems the "integrated dry sump" in the 986/996, which basically means they do not have a dry sump at all.

The dry sump issue does not bother me too much, because I don't plan to enter the car in competitive racing (not yet, anyway!).

A more damning criticism of 'the new Porsche' concerns build quality. A lot of people are saying that the modern build quality does not match the standard of the old ones. I do not know if this is true; but if so, it would obviously bother me. I think that Porsche should design their cars for longevity, and the racing heritage has always contributed to that goal.

Jax951

T951,

I feel your pain, brother.

My 951 is the most unreliable car I have ever owned. I have to work on it much more than I get to drive it. I LOVE to drive it, but I'm pretty much sick of the hassles. It seems like as soon as I fix one thing, something else breaks.

I keep going back and forth, trying to decide whether or not I'm going to sell it. I still can't make up my mind. I just know I'm going to regret it if I get rid of it (thinking of 400Hp+ of american muscle), but I may regret it by keeping it.

Right now I'm just taking a break. I've not even looked at my horrendous p/s leak that reared it's ugly head about 2 weeks ago. I don't think I'm going to for a little while either. I'm just going to let it sit in the garage, and let it think about the pain and suffering it has caused me. I'm going to drive my civic, or my crx (both of which have 10,000 and 60,000 miles on them MORE than the porsche) and actually do enjoyable things in my spare time instead of crawling around under the porsce getting all filthy and oily.

There is life after porsche.

<img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />

scular

If anyone is really that annoyed at their Porsche, let me know and I will be happy to help you by taking it to relieve the stress, on you and your wallet, and just get rid of the headaches and heartbreaks. I have a new house with a big yard(soon to be a big garage). As part of my service to you I will even send you photos of your former troublesome car being worked on and costing me money not you.
<img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

T951

LOL..that last post made me laff....and I needed that!

I am still a porschefile. I think that cars like the mustang, etc are like tools. There are many tools because there are so many different uses. The mustang is a v8 american car, that usually means average handling, lots of torque, no panache, and no resale. (This is a generalization, of course there are exceptions!). It feels great to get pushed back in your seat and feel torque just twisting the car....

The porsche car has always been a different experience. High speed, lightweight, great handling, incredible breaks, and with the air of luxury, and upper-crusted lifestyle.

I guess one of my main thoughts was that we tolerate a lot more because it is a porsche. Be honest, if any other car you owned had this many issues, it would have been traded in long ago. It used to be that Porsches were like tanks, reliable, and simple (2.7L motor excluded!). There was nothing to break, or leak....(no radiator, water pumps, ps pumps, etc). Simple equalled reliable.

Those days are long gone. No longer are cars simple.

Points made above regarding the publics view on the 924/944 series are well taken. They were indeed looked down upon as the Boxster is now.

The other major beef I have with the Boxster is what happens to them when they are out of warranty and need to be maintained.

Can you imagine trying to work on a 12 year old Boxster, ya right, have fun with that. It seems to me that a sports car should be eminently simple to work on. You can't even see the Boxster motor....

Anyway, I am still going to continue fixing my car, because, as someone mentioned above....there is NOTHING LIKE AN EXIT RAMP IN A PORSCHE.

Cheers! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

My944Turbo

Alrighty, i'll admit it...plenty of times I have looked at my car and thought to myself, "Why do I keep dumping money into it?" Then after I fix it, I start it up and within 2 miles and a few corners I know why. No car I have ever driven gives me the same sort of rush.

Even now as my car sits waiting for stupid insurance people, I think why...but I know as soon as I fix it, i'll have my anti-depressent back.

And as for the mustang, I still think it is ugly...EDIT___k, i just edited out my incredibly long rant. End of story. I'm glad people are buying so many mustangs, that way when I go out to the parking lot I can find my car... <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" /> \
Oh and in case nobody noticed...after my comment in my previous post there was a little man, which I thought would show that I was joking about the mustang and the civic...oh well. <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />

kennyandersen

just caught the thread. My 951 has been pretty reliable in the year I've owned it. There are a few things I've done that I consider regualr maintenance (belts , hoses etcetera). I've owned a lot of used cars -- VW's with 215,000, I got a chevy truck with about 220,000, etc. The way I get by is I always replace stuff befor it breaks. I fix the leaks and I drive them a little easier.

I had so much trouble with my Ford [Tarus -- called it the tortoise) -- transmission, head gaskets, tie-rods, motor mounts, simmer shich, ignition switch, brakes etc. Even when I look back on all the sevice records (which I have since new), this car wasn't nothing compared to that piece o crap Ford. Man! I hated that car -- my family still openly mock the ones we see on the road. All of that happened within about 75K miles (the same as I had on the 951 when I first got it -- I have less than 82K on it now).

I think it really matters how the car has been cared for over the years, and how it has been driven. There are a lot of cheap p-cars for sale but I still believe I did the right thing by getting a more expensive [up front] car that was well documented and well cared for. There are a lot of thrashed cars out there and INHO many are huge money pits.

Having said that, It is not as low maintenance as my Hondas (I've a couple of thoses too) and never will be. But a Honda is still a Honda. It looks like a Honda, drives like a Honda and has the bland soul of a Honda. A Honda will [IMHO] will never give you the driving pleasure that a P-car (at least my 951 or a 911) will!

993Maineiac

I can't help but think that the way we view our cars depends on how we use them. Mine is a toy that I lusted over for two decades, so much is forgiven when it comes to spending $$$. If it was a daily driver I'd feel differently. Also, since the only shop working on older Porsches within 150 miles just closed, I may feel a lot different in the future-but for now the love affair continues.

One more note-just got 911& PW today. They say Porsche (& and it's quest for obscene profits?) is in fact coming out with a 2 dr 4 seat sedan to compete with bimmers etc. So much for the heritage of racing-OK, and SUV, a sedan, can a Minivan be far behind. Their stated goal is to produce 100K vehicles per year. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />