I suppose Thom is right.
Only 1988 S models have M030 option as standard.Later in 1989-91 M030 was available as option.
Since Porsche had difficulties to sell these cars in late '80's early '90's most of the US sold cars were fully loaded, so they have almost every factory options.These cars were also sold with huge discounts back then.It was quite usual that cars sat at dealers yard over a year! In europe sold cars it was the different case.M030 is quite rare option to find here.Almost every '89-'91 951 i have seen (euro model) does not have M030 option.

 

Olli: M030 does NOT make a car an "S" car. Several 944 models were equipped with the optional sport suspension M030 package -even the early NA cars.

If post-'88 951 cars are not "S" cars, then how do you or Thom suggest to differentiate between the 220HP 951 and the 250HP version? By citing the model year?

The truth of the matter is, that the main differentiating factor between an "S" 951 and a " non S" is the engine type M44/52. All 1989-1991 951 cars were built with this 250HP engine.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Luis de Prat:
<strong>Olli: M030 does NOT make a car an "S" car. Several 944 models were equipped with the optional sport suspension M030 package -even the early NA cars.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">You're right about this, but this is not the point in this subject
The ONE and ONLY "944 Turbo S" is the 1988 limited edition silver rose 250hp 951 with the pink/red cloth seats. Full stop.

You can't say 1989, 1990 and 1991 951 are "944 Turbo S" cars because they were sold as "944 Turbo", NOT as "944 Turbo S".

Now where did I put this box of aspirin... <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by thom:
<strong>You're right about this, but this is not the point in this subject
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I did not bring this up. Olli did.

You still didn't answer my question. How do believe the 250HP 951 should be designated versus the 220HP 951? Simply calling both a 944 "turbo" is inaccurate because they are clearly different cars.

Regardless of the factory marketing nuances of model year 1988, it is generally accepted among 944 enthusiasts (or at least that has been my experience in these forums since 1995) that the "951S" was first offered in 1988 as an option, and subsequently all 951 cars became "S" cars by default.

As you know, in Europe it is not customary to cite the model year when describing a car as is the case in the U.S. If a 250HP 951 is not an "S" how are you suggesting it should be called?

<img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

 

So to add this interesting debate all, we can all say, that "officially" with our 951 the "S" is only for the special edition in '88, and after that it's
951 '89 '90 '91 ok?!

I personally prefer, when I talk with "civilians" about my car, to use the term
"Turbo S" to make a difference between the "normal" 220 hp and my 250 hp version,
even thought my car ain't the real "S"-edition..

It's just to make a point, and my p-car is a US-version with M030 etc. etc.

And I even got the answer to my original topic ! Thanks.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Luis de Prat:
<strong>You still didn't answer my question. How do believe the 250HP 951 should be designated versus the 220HP 951? Simply calling both a 944 "turbo" is inaccurate because they are clearly different cars.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I agree, and that's why we here prefer to refer to the power output & the model year when talking about the 951. That sounds a bit heavy but the only ones to blame for this are the factory.
We currently make the difference between 4 types of Turbo:
- 85 & 86 Turbo 220 (non-ABS)
- 87 & 88 Turbo 220 (ABS)
- 88 Turbo S & 89 Turbo 250 (knowing that the MY89 shares the same mechanical components - M030 included - as the '88 Turbo S)
- 90 & 91 Turbo 250
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Luis de Prat:
<strong>Regardless of the factory marketing nuances of model year 1988, it is generally accepted among 944 enthusiasts (or at least that has been my experience in these forums since 1995) that the "951S" was first offered in 1988 as an option, and subsequently all 951 cars became "S" cars by default.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">This is exactly what I pointed out in my first message: "you guys on this side of the atlantic pond seem to call any given 250hp 951 a "951S"."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Luis de Prat:
<strong>As you know, in Europe it is not customary to cite the model year when describing a car as is the case in the U.S.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Wrong, at least as far as the 951 is concerned.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Luis de Prat:
<strong>If a 250HP 951 is not an "S" how are you suggesting it should be called?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Explained above; we call cars by the names they had when they left the factory (which seems quite legitimate after all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by sybelix:
<strong>I personally prefer, when I talk with "civilians" about my car, to use the term
"Turbo S" to make a difference between the "normal" 220 hp and my 250 hp version,
even thought my car ain't the real "S"-edition...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">This is exactly what got me confused at the beginning: there was no US MY91 and very few US MY90, therefore a majority of '88 951S and 89 951 are around hence the reason (I suppose) you call any 250hp 951 a "Turbo S".

Everything's much clearer in my mind now

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by thom:
<strong>We currently make the difference between 4 types of Turbo:
- 85 & 86 Turbo 220 (non-ABS)
- 87 & 88 Turbo 220 (ABS)
- 88 Turbo S & 89 Turbo 250 (knowing that the MY89 shares the same mechanical components - M030 included - as the '88 Turbo S)
- 90 & 91 Turbo 250</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Wrong. You missed one:

91 Turbo 250 Cabriolet <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Luis de Prat:
<strong>Wrong. You missed one:

91 Turbo 250 Cabriolet <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Nope, Turbo cabs are just a mixture between the remains of S2 cab shells and the remaining Turbo engines!

Only joking! <img src="http://www.smilies.org/basesmilies3/mhihi.gif" alt=" - " /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

 

 

..[/qb][/QUOTE]This is exactly what got me confused at the beginning: there was no US MY91 and very few US MY90, therefore a majority of '88 951S and 89 951 are around hence the reason (I suppose) you call any 250hp 951 a "Turbo S".

[/QB][/QUOTE]

Yup, my 951 (no "S" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) is one of 114 ( another source 1 of 144) imported to States back ín '90, so it's quite rare.
And as Olli stated earlier, it is fully loaded,
so there's ABS, LSD, AC, factory alarm (thought it's been replaced with a modern one), power seats both sides, moonroof, dual airbags,
10-speaker sound system, M030, adjustable Koni's
etc.etc.

So that's one reason, why I call it an "S", when I talk about it, because it basically has all the goodies like the real-S did, except that
horrible interior.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Sorry, if I confused you.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

 

Refering to your first question, Sybelix:

I find it quite surprising your 951 was fitted with ClubSport rims when it was sold new, as it should have been fitted with the specific Design 90 7.5 front and 9 rear (as Luis clearly pointed out).

Are you 100% sure your car was fitted with ClubSport rims when new?

 

My dear Thom

In your beautifull country you call the 951S a 944 Turbo Cup...
There are no Turbo S in France
BTW All 90 and up Turbo car came with D'90 rims...
and M030 is an option on these cars...
Having bought a 90 and 91 MY cars - both are without the M030

Nicolas
944 Turbo Club Sport

 

My dear Nicolas,

In France the "944 Turbo Cup" (road car) was no more than a marketing plan to rename the "944 Turbo S" in order to strengthen the link between the "Turbo Cup" competition series (similar to the "Rothmans Turbo Cup" in the US) and the road car, even though these cars are nothing more than a rebadged "944 Turbo S"

All the rest you say I typed it earlier in this thread

What is that "944 Turbo Club Sport" you own?...

 

My Dear Thom

You are right but you seemed very attached to the "commercial names" given by the factory and thus the 944 Turbo S is badged Turbo Cup in France.

My 944 Turbo Clubsport is a very limited edition only reserved for the best ...

Regards

Nicolas
"eating 16 valves at breakfast especially grey one's registered in Paris"