TaboII

OK I am going to rebuild my motor partly because it needs it and partly because I want the experience. What I need to find out is where can I get the cylinders bored with this special aluminum/selenium machine in the local Boston area and the head reconditioned and measured for tolerances. I also need recommendation for pistons and rods. I want new pistons however I am not sure whether I will need connecting rods and pins to accompany the new positions? I am also thinking about going with the 89 pistons or their aftermarket equivalent in order to up the compression ratio a bit. What if any will be the draw backs of doing this and is it actually possible? I am also considering having the crank knifed to lighten things up a bit. Will this effect the balance of the motor in such a way that the balance shaft will not be able to do there jobs or will there need to be some sort of adjustments needed to compensate for the loss in crank weight? Just to cap this whole thing off I am also considering a performance cam for the top end. I have seen talk on this subject however I would like to get more information and your opinions on this idea.

This is going to be a huge project for me that will not only include rebuilding the motor completely but also give me the opportunities to clean up the engine compartment and rewire where necessary to correct the relatively inadequate job of electrical wiring that Porsche did on these cars. I am actually considering rebuilding the entire wiring harness with a more suitable wire gauge yet to be determined, never the less more adequate for the job.

I know there will be the people out there, who will think I am off my rocker and want to dissuade me from the project, please try and refrain from this. I hope to make this a very informative string that will produce a lot of technical data and reference for all so please try and stick to the subject and possibly we all will learn a thing or two. This project starts at the end of next month and may go through the winter, and for all you die hard Rennlisters this will be completely documented and possibly videotaped. Not that it needs to be said but with the assistance of a friend of mine there will be complete write ups and PICTURES for those of you who will ask for them on my reenlist site. Right now it is outdated but this will change very soon just as the project gets started. John I may need some extra space but that will be another discussion

Ok With all that said bring on the recommendations and thoughts on this project. Let me know what you think and what you would like to see specifically done or documented. Nothing that is unnecessary will be done however; if there is a good reason to see something done for the longevity of the motor and the car “Or to p the performance of this little N/A motor then please make suggestions. Keeping it as close to stock is important for the simple reason that I want the motor to last but upgrades that do not vary from the norm to far and are worth the effort will not only be considered but also utilized.

Thanks for taking the time to read this novel, if I have my way this is going to be a huge string and filled with a boatload of information for all to read and learn from. Well I am off to start getting the tools cleaned and order a new engine lift and stand. Also order my air compressor and some tools to complete this job. Guess when this is all complete I will be all set up to rebuild motors and help out another Rennlister or two.
<img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

Riff

Jeeeezzz...Just after we got the engine running smooth you wanna go and do this??? Let me know when/if you need any help turning wrenches, be more than happy to come on up and bust some knuckles and learn a little bit.

Cheers,

John Anderson

THe crank is a plus...I responded to your question on the NA power thread :-)

As for the cam, its a dog, unless you have the grunt down low to pay for the the expense of the top end power you get. I've been there, done that, many times. Remember, larger cams, especialy any with more overlap, will shift your power up the band, so, believe me, you nee to have an expendable power curve at the low end to be happy with the trade off.

As far st the new pistons, I would shop around for low mile pistons before spending the cash on new pistons...big bucks saved! For the wrist pins, I doubt you need new ones, or even new rod inserts for the pins, easy way to check...take an assebled piston/rod, then try to twist the rod on the piston, if there is slop, replace it.

If you want to up the compression, simp[ly have the head milled a bit, I went to .0060 on mine, with 8:1 pistons and ended up with a much happier compression. Don't get fooled into spending tons on very easy mods.

Take Care!

BRB_85.5_NA

You da man Keith.

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> BRB

ram_one

John is right about the cam. It is a dog down low. With a turbo transmission the low rpm performance is even worse from a dead stop. If you can live with this as I have chosen to, the upper rpm gains are wonderful. The cam also gives you a nice steady rumble at idle. I like it. Almost like a Harley. Not quite as bad. Don't do the cam if you're looking to keep a steady, quiet idle.
For my money, I'd do the MAF kit. Definitely the best bang for the buck. It is an easy install and it's the best $$ per HP mod that I have done. It's worked flawlessly and I love it. My only regret is that I'd probably have to lose it if I go the supercharger route.

I do have one question. If you decide to go the supercharger route, will shaving the head and upping the compresison be a problem?

Just my $.02.
Good luck.

Ken D

Hey Keith,

I'm also ready to stop by and give a hand along with Riff. Since Jon Milledge is in MA (Marshfield methinks), give him a call and see what he can do with block prep. We can always pull your motor and drive it down to him.
Why don't you drive my car with the Milledge cam and see what you think of the added power (3500 rpms on up). Millege/WebCam etc. should all feel pretty much the same when comparing equal grinds.

TaboII

Awesome input guys I knew I could count on you all. I am on the edge with the cam at this point because of the input but I would like to drive verve3’s car to see what it feels like before I make my final decision. I could live with a low en rumble if it is worth the bank for the buck on the high end.

As for the block prep Ok I’m biting. Who is Jon Milledge and how do I get in contact with him?

OK here is the deal. I am not going to set and schedules for this job but instead announce when I can accomplish each step. Riff I am sorry about having to do this so soon after we busted our @$$#$ on the car but after checking the cylinder pressures I found that #2 is below 150 and the others are well into the 160 range. I don’t want to run the chance that I will blow something. I do drive fairly hard as you know and well to continue this habit I need a motor I can count on. I’m sure you under stand. Besides it gives all of us a great excuse to get together and BBQ. I already talked with the boss and she understands “Surprisingly” that this is something than needs to be done and is ok with it.

OK Big question. I would like to pull the motor Saturday the 17 and need a cheery picker to do this. I am thinking about buying one but how many times and I actually going to use it “NOT MANY”! So I am wondering if any one in the local area would be kind enough to lend me one for an after noon with the adjustable cross brace. I am picking up the engine stand this weekend and should be all set to pull the motor with no problems by the 17. I don’t expect it to take more than a couple of hours after reading the factory manuals it doesn’t seem that hard, save for one point.

Can I remove the motor from the top rather from the bottom as the factory manuals state?

After the engine is out we “Meaning all those who would like to attend and learn a thing or two” will make the attempt to remove the head before the day is out.

Ok that the plan on my end. Any help will be appreciated and expertise brought to the table is a huge plus. Well I guess it’s the 17th I hope to see some of you there
<img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Geo

[quote]Originally posted by TaboII:
<strong>OK I am going to rebuild my motor partly because it needs it and partly because I want the experience. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Good for you!!! Two thumbs up.

[quote]Originally posted by TaboII:
<strong>What I need to find out is where can I get the cylinders bored with this special aluminum/selenium machine in the local Boston area and the head reconditioned and measured for tolerances.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I can't imagine why you would consider anyone besides Jon Milledge Engineering.

[quote]Originally posted by TaboII:
<strong>What if any will be the draw backs of doing this</strong><hr></blockquote>

Wallet drain.

[quote]Originally posted by TaboII:
<strong>and is it actually possible?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course!

[quote]Originally posted by TaboII:
<strong>I know there will be the people out there, who will think I am off my rocker and want to dissuade me from the project, please try and refrain from this.</strong><hr></blockquote>

They should go spread their negativity elsewhere and get out of the way of people who are actually doing something.

I did something like this with my SR20DE out of my Sentra SE-R a few years back, only I did every possible mod I could think of at the time (only wanted to do it once).

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~geo3/beast-toc.htm" target="_blank">http://home.earthlink.net/~geo3/beast-toc.htm</a>

Have fun and good luck.

My advice is:

1) Have patience. Remember, you are doing this for fun and education. Don't rush. If you get frustrated or confused with something, walk away. It'll be easier when you are ready to come back and work on it.

2) Take lots of photos before and during the process. For one thing, the photos become a reference library when you are putting things back together and even when the engine is back in the car. With it on the stand you have easy access to see items that can be hard to see in the car. My disassembly photos saved my behind big-time. I forgot about the head registration pins and the night I first installed the head I was looking through the photos and saw them. I said "$#^%#!! I forgot about those things. I wonder what they are?" Cost me an expensive head gasket, but saved an expensive engine.

3) Become one with the FSM Grasshopper.

You'll do fine. Rebuilding an engine is really easier than a lot of work you'll do on your car. Other people will be doing the stuff you can't (machining and measuring).

Good luck. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Geo

[quote]Originally posted by TaboII:
<strong>As for the block prep Ok I’m biting. Who is Jon Milledge and how do I get in contact with him? </strong><hr></blockquote>

<a href="http://www.jmengines.com/index.htm" target="_blank">http://www.jmengines.com/index.htm</a>

Ken D

Keith, check your PM.

Ken

Steve in New Hampshire

The 17th, eh? Hmmmm, we'll have to see if the dynamic duo can get there!!

Turby

Keith, I just went to Milledge's shop and met him last week.............Let me tell you, this guy knows his S#!T. And is paid well for it. Unless you plan on turning this car into a MONSTER, you dont need Milledge......or the empty pockets . I have all my headwork done by a shop in Framingham, and he does the best work I have ever seen. (I am a master machienst) Call me and we'll talk....whats your office # again??? Just call my cell..........

TaboII

Steve you know you always welcom to join us.

Dan in Pasadena

Keith, Obviously I am WAY too far away to be involved but I am curious. I was wondering if it is possible to stroke the engine with the crank out of a 968? Maybe John Anderson can chime in here and say if this is possible/not possible or a performance dead end?

John Anderson

HI Dan,

Yes you can stroke the motor with the 968 crank. Using stock 951 forged pistons, you run into a bit of a clearance issue with the girdle when doing this. The cap and nut barley hit the girdle when passing. Its nothing major, just a tad of a relief to mill into the side of the girdle, you need just a little, your not hurting the integrity of the girdle by any means. I suspect that when other shops have done this stroker, they most often use aftermarket rods and the cap dimensions let them get by. But we decided it was cheaper to just change the wrist pin location on the JE pistons and run standard 951 forged rods.

The performance gain, well, its the oldest mod in the book for the 944 :-) or one of the oldest, its a 2.8 liter stroker.

We have added that to our 106mm bored block to get much more displacement.

It is definately not a dead end mod, and is very much worth your thoughts. I would say to have that crank worked pretty good, lightened, knifed check for straightness/strength etc while your at it :-)

Take Care!