Damn it. I spent all day swapping out control arms (not that that would affect the car's inability to start), and I just installed a new fuel pressure regulator and fuel dampener, and my car still won't start. It started up fine on a daily basis until about a month ago when I came out of the school gym and it would turn over but not start. It has since then been starting intermittently, less and less frequently (about 1 out of 8 times I go outside to start it it will start) and will often times fire up but then die a few seconds later and not start again.

The last time I actually drove it (a couple of weeks ago) it started up, and acted like it was about to die, so I gave it some gas and it stayed running, but I had to keep the revvs over 3000 or it would plummit to a stall. I figured that the fuel pressure regulator or dampener had gone bad as it seemed to be running very rich (and my air/fuel meter which usually reads lean on part throttle read full rich) when it was doing this.

I have replaced the following items in the last several months...some for maintainence and some to attempt to cure this problem, but all are related to a no start condition:

coil
cap and rotor
plug wires
plugs
DME relay
fuel pressure regulator
fuel dampener
fuel pump and filter replaced a year ago
new SS fuel lines
cleaned, balanced, and o-ringed injectors
checked and double checked crank angle and speed sensor connections

I am at the end of my rope here. I need help. I have fuel, spark, and air, but no start...what gives?

The only other thing I can think of is that the spark plugs may have become fouled from the car running rich for so long...I am going to pull one and check it, but in the mean time if anybody has any other suggestions I would be much obliged. TIA,

 

Okay...I pulled a plug and it was coated in soot (much more so than a normal plug), and smelled very gasoliney. I am going to pull all of my plugs, clean them, and stick them back in...any other ideas in the mean time are welcome.

 

Ribs wrote:

[quote] I just installed a new fuel pressure regulator and fuel dampener <hr></blockquote>

Well that's part of you problem, you installed a fuel dampener and now your gasoline is all wet. You should try installing a fuel pressure damper and see if that helps.

 

I cleaned off all of my plugs (included sanding both sides of the gap) stuck them back in and still nothing. I am just about ready to give up on this thing...I hate this car. I have forgotten why I got it in the first place...it just seems to me like a huge time and money pit with no rewards. Maybe if I get it started I can go for a drive and be reminded of why I got it in the first place, but right now I am pissed.

 

i would too ribs, that sucks..youve poured alot into the car for the time youve owned it.

youve replaced everything i would suggest.
maybe oxygen sensor?
the only other thing I can say is that my car had a problem w/ dying and cutting out. I replaced the TPS switch @ 65 bucks, problem solved. Im sure thats not your problem, but while youre in there you can at least clean out the throttle body...
dont give up and good luck!
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

 

Sorry to hear it Ribs- I know just how you feel- I've been having some starting probs too, although your's sound different- these cars do have a lot of little quirks and annoyances- more so than the average car- sometimes it is too much to have to put up with, unless you have another car to drive... I hope things get better... If not, maybe I'll be e-mailing you to ask about 3rd Gen RX-7 stuff, huh? I still wonder if I shouldn't have gone for one of those- everytime I see one out, I start to wish I had, but then I think- I'd probably just have a whole different set of probs- six in one hand, half a dozen in the other...

 

If you have spark, fuel, and air - there is no reason the car will not run. Are you absolutely sure you have all of these at the same time?

If not:

- pull a plug and ground it - check for spark (all four)
- pull all the plugs, turn car over (not the whole car, just the ignition) without coil wire connected - check that all cylinders receive fuel
- Check that your intake boot(s) and all vacuum lines are attached.

If you have fuel and spark, you can't really help but have air - engine should run... or at least want to.

Skip

 

Sam, thanks for the suggestions. My TPS is operational AFAIK and the throttle body was cleaned out a few months ago when I had it off of the car. I'll try to keep my cool, but I need something to drive back to my hometown this weekend (last band practice before our band's first show) and my celica's fans stopped coming on so it overheats after 10 minutes of driving so I am stuck within a 3 mile radius of my house...at least there are 10 bars within a couple miles!

Robby, I know you have had some bad luck with your car as well and I feel the pain. I would just love it if my car would run and stay running for a while so I can get out of my house (all of my roommates are gone all week and none of my friends are back in town as school doesn't start for another couple of weeks, so I don't have much to do these days...I have been spending a lot of time on the internet if anybody has noticed) but for some reason it has decided to be a little bitch.

Skip, its too bright outside right now to check for spark (I don't have a meter thing to check for it) but I will check it when it gets a little darker...should I just lay a plug on my intake manifold or something? I am pretty sure there is fuel going to all of the cylinders...all of the plugs (I just pulled them all a short while ago) had a very strong gasoline odor, and the exhaust smells very rich. All of the intake plumbing and vacuum lines are tight with no leaks.

This still doesn't explain why every once in a while the car will start with no beef and stay running fine. Does anybody in salisbury have an extra 951 DME they would like to lend me for testing?

 

This might be well known or little known but on my old 84 944 the sec system computer thingy was behind the radio in the dash. Long and short, mine did the EXACT same thing yours is doing shortly after I installed a new CD player. It took me forever to figure out that when I slid the new deck in it loosened up the harness on the sec system and I guess it triggered some sort of kill feature. It would start about 1 out of every 8 tries. I pressed the harness in all the way and it never did it again.

 

Ribs, check your crank/speed ref sensors again...they might look alright........give them a giggle while someone else trys to start the car.......

 

Ribs, When you replaced the fuel pressure regulator did you replace it with an adjustable unit by chance? If you did, did you then hook up a fuel pressure meter and set the correct fuel pressure? If not, then I'll put money on it that this is your problem. They do not come set from the factory.

Again, this is only for an adjustable FPR.

Other than that, did you give your DME a good thump to get it to wake up? Cold solder joints do tend to break on these things... Maybe your DME is the problem..

Did you check that the distributor rotor is spinning? These things can break and just spin on the shaft. It's easy to take the distributor cap off and double check that the rotor is actually attached! If you (or your wrench) forgot to actually glue the rotor on the shaft then I wouldn't be surprised to see it loosen up and cause problems like this.

Good luck!

Dal.

 

I had a similar problem in my N/A, It happened every once and a while, then the car just wouldnt run, Had to give it a lot of gas to keep going, then would never start again, I had an occasional sputter, but that was it no more. Being that I checked just about everything out, I ripped off the cover to my air flow meter, and there was a film over the circuitry, between the barn door positioner and the circuitry going to the copmuter. Sprayed some contact cleaner on it, rubbed the junk off, and it was good as new.

Hope that helps
I know what it is like to be this P/O'ed

Christian

 

Yep, we've all been there at one point in time or another. My 2 cents and my experience was that my starting problem had to do with a grounding problem. Also, I believe I remember one of the other guys actually traced his problem back to poor battery connections. Guess I'd start there and start working through the list of all of the items the guys suggested. Finally, since the DME relay is often implicated in these scenarios, although you said you replaced it, I'd try another one just to be sure. Good luck.

 

Alright guys...I got her running...it ended up being that the DME is being a little bitch (see my post about a strange solution to my starting problem) and needs to be kicked to be woken up or something...I suppose I will be taking it apart and re-soldering all of the joints sometime in the near future, but I am content to give her a little smack every once in a while (or as skip put it, SPOT...smack the **** outta' that) if she needs it. Thanks a ton for the help!

Jon...never heard of the SEC system computer thingy...is this something that was only on the older models?

Turby, I used to have an intermittent starting problem that was related to the speed/crank sensor...I know this now because if you unplug one of them (forgot which one), the tach doesn't bounce when you are trying to start (this is what it used to do, and this is how I knew that my car wasn't going to start), but when I disassembled my car several months ago I came to find that one of connectors for those sensors behind the intake manifold was barely plugged in and would explain why sometimes the car acted the way it did. Now everything (except the DME) seems gravy.

Dal, I bought a fixed 3 bar unit to replace my stock 2.5 (?) bar unit...I plan on doing danno's MAP sensor upgrade thing and a nasty sounding BOV after I sell my fuchs, and you get a $40 credit on the price of the kit if you have this regulator (which the kit requires), so I believe it was getting an acceptable (all though probably a bit rich...my air/fuel gauge never went into the yellow rich zone until today) amount of fuel. And dal, yes, I kicked the **** out of the DME and it woke right up and the car decided to start working.

Christian...I cleaned my air flow meter out a few months ago when I had my car apart, but even with it unplugged, the car would still start for a second and then die. I plan on eleminating it soon anyways. I appreciate that you understand how I felt...now I am happy though, because I got it running!

newoldguy...Replacing the DME relay seemed to help a lot for a few days, but I think I had multiple failures all within a short period of time (FPR, DME relay, and now the DME)...when it rains it pours. I take my terminals off and give them a swab with a wire brush every few months to make sure I don't have any problems with grounding or bad connections, and my engine block-to-chassis supplimental ground that IceShark gave me (well...I paid for it) cured a lot of problems I was having with erratic gauges and the such.

Thanks again guys! Now I know the problem, how to temporarily fix it (swift kick to the DME), and what I have to do in the near future to have a rock solid ride. At least she runs now!