Anderson Motorworks 3.1L Engine
08-05-2002, 08:30 PM
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Three Wheelin'
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Anderson Motorworks 3.1L Engine
The Anderson Motorworks race car engine is almost ready to put in the car. Here are the specs for everyone who has been wondering:
3.1L displacement
13:1 compression
3L knife edge crank
106mm bore
Custome JE pistons
we will have more pictures upon completion of the engine..
SHAUN
08-05-2002, 11:54 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Luke:
<strong>why an na motor? You'd think that if people wanted to spend that kind of money, they would be looking for HUGE hp #s?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I believe it is John's spec'd race engine for the west coast 944 cup (a new racing series that was discussed in a previous thread)...no 16V motors and no turbos allowed.
<strong>why an na motor? You'd think that if people wanted to spend that kind of money, they would be looking for HUGE hp #s?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I believe it is John's spec'd race engine for the west coast 944 cup (a new racing series that was discussed in a previous thread)...no 16V motors and no turbos allowed.
08-06-2002, 01:11 AM
#6
Drifting
Are those cylinders tapered into the block at the bottom? Does that effectively keep them from traveling up and down? (If indeed the original cylinders are completely removed...)
08-06-2002, 01:11 AM
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All the wrist pins are the same, its the reflection of the light that makes it appear that way.
Actually, this motor is for our POC spec'd car, we are trying like hell to stay R5. We are at the limit right now with two points to spare.
As for the cost of the motor, its not as much as you would expect, and thats the reason I'm building an NA for a race car. I've been a turbo freak for years, but I have to tell you. The NA can be fast, and its a blast to get back to all engine HP.
We are running 13:1 compression
106mm bored block.
chromoly sleeves.
3 liter knife edged, lightened and cross drilled crank.
big cam.
stock head for now.
JE pistons. Custom for anderson motoworks.
lightened flywheel.
Turbo forged rods.
headers.
stock motronics.
turbo injectors.
and the list goes on...this should be a serious car!
For the cost of a MAF kit, MSD ignition, K&N air filter cold air conversion, Nology Hotwire upgrade and a set of chips....you can buy this motor :-) Well, at least you can buy a smogable 2.8 high compression engine that will lay down 200 to the tires. Try to get those numbers with the snake oil bolt on's that have been sold to us for years.
The thing with the NA motors, you have to do motor work to get serious HP. The bolt ons are fine for a few, but thats about it. Heck, people have bought the MAF kits for 1400.00 that give 20hp gain...thats a large chunk of change...and couple that with the rest of the bolt ons one might add to enhance the MAF kit...whewwww...
How about I offer a 2.8 liter engine, compression of your choice, with knife edged, lightened, crossdrilled crank (your core), Lightened flywheel (your core), Custom JE pistons, turbo forged rods, 106mm chromoly sleeved block.....basically a complete chort block with all gaskets, bearings and seals, wide fire ring Head Gasket...say for....3200.00
Its a one time offer, first to order gets the block. One year warrantee. 200+ at the tires. As usual, this motor is sold for off road use only, and may not pass emmisions in your state. yadda yadda yadda...
:-)
Actually, this motor is for our POC spec'd car, we are trying like hell to stay R5. We are at the limit right now with two points to spare.
As for the cost of the motor, its not as much as you would expect, and thats the reason I'm building an NA for a race car. I've been a turbo freak for years, but I have to tell you. The NA can be fast, and its a blast to get back to all engine HP.
We are running 13:1 compression
106mm bored block.
chromoly sleeves.
3 liter knife edged, lightened and cross drilled crank.
big cam.
stock head for now.
JE pistons. Custom for anderson motoworks.
lightened flywheel.
Turbo forged rods.
headers.
stock motronics.
turbo injectors.
and the list goes on...this should be a serious car!
For the cost of a MAF kit, MSD ignition, K&N air filter cold air conversion, Nology Hotwire upgrade and a set of chips....you can buy this motor :-) Well, at least you can buy a smogable 2.8 high compression engine that will lay down 200 to the tires. Try to get those numbers with the snake oil bolt on's that have been sold to us for years.
The thing with the NA motors, you have to do motor work to get serious HP. The bolt ons are fine for a few, but thats about it. Heck, people have bought the MAF kits for 1400.00 that give 20hp gain...thats a large chunk of change...and couple that with the rest of the bolt ons one might add to enhance the MAF kit...whewwww...
How about I offer a 2.8 liter engine, compression of your choice, with knife edged, lightened, crossdrilled crank (your core), Lightened flywheel (your core), Custom JE pistons, turbo forged rods, 106mm chromoly sleeved block.....basically a complete chort block with all gaskets, bearings and seals, wide fire ring Head Gasket...say for....3200.00
Its a one time offer, first to order gets the block. One year warrantee. 200+ at the tires. As usual, this motor is sold for off road use only, and may not pass emmisions in your state. yadda yadda yadda...
:-)
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08-06-2002, 01:24 AM
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That's what I'm talking about! I'd love to have that motor in my car, and I'd REALLY love to get the one you're offering john, maybe if no one takes you up on the offer in a couple months I'll be able to afford it. I'm saving my pennies as we speak.
08-06-2002, 02:07 AM
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hmmm....couple months....I doubt it will last that long...this is a block that can be built and delivered in a couple weeks.
Maybe we can put you on our payment plan. You might call the shop and we could set you up :-)
Take Care!
Maybe we can put you on our payment plan. You might call the shop and we could set you up :-)
Take Care!
08-06-2002, 02:20 AM
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the original cylinders are not remove from the block in our process. They are bored to accept the larger sleeves. Our sleevs have a rim around the top that overlaps the original cylinders. This is what keeps them from moving. The original cylinders are machined about a quarter inch below the deck to make room for the new sleeve with cap.
Its a solid combo, and the cylinders will not move...period.
If you look closely, in one of the bottom engine shots, you can actually see the stock cylinder, holdin the sleeve...and you should also take notice, that there is plenty of wall strength in the original cylinder to hold the sleeve.
Take Care!
Its a solid combo, and the cylinders will not move...period.
If you look closely, in one of the bottom engine shots, you can actually see the stock cylinder, holdin the sleeve...and you should also take notice, that there is plenty of wall strength in the original cylinder to hold the sleeve.
Take Care!
08-06-2002, 10:45 AM
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I used to rent a 944 for track events that was built with a 2.8L high compression engine. That car was a blast to drive. The first time I drove it I smoked the rears coming out of the pits. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
08-06-2002, 03:50 PM
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Shaun and every one else,
Shaun Awesome looking motor I will dream about this tonight.
Here are my stupid questions for the day. I am considering a complete engine rebuild myself this winter for my 87 N/A 2.5 L.
First what is the difference between the turbo rods and the N/A rods? Are they the same in function dement ions? Would it benefit me any if I where to replace the N/A with the turbo versions?
Second many people have discussed sleeving the cylinders. Would it be of any benefit to boar and sleeve the 2.5 possibly a bit over with lager rings or altogether different pistons?
Third knifing and lightning the crank sounds expensive to say the least I understand by lightening the components ie. Flywheel and crank you deliver more torque to the rear wheels more effectively but I am not certain this will make for a long life motor. What is your opinion on this John?
Fourth: you are using the stock head “Reworked with a large cam, This I can understand, With all this extra HP are you still going to attach the balance shafts to keep the motor smooth or is this for race only. Would it be possible to make this modification on my 2.5l and still maintain some degree of daily use i.e keep the balance shafts?
As I am sure you can tell I know just enough to get myself into trouble and that is not saying much. I though I would learn as I went and see what results I came up with. I suppose I will be sending the block out to be at very least honed to smooth out the boar on the cylinder walls because every one tells me I cannot do this myself. So that will be a major expense. I thought I would give the head rebuild a shot on my own as I have about half the necessary tools soon I will have most of the necessary tool to accomplish this task and the factory manuals to work from.
What recommendations to you all have for this.. It is going to be started in the Fall as soon as we hit our first below freezing day. So any help would be greatly appreciated.
Shaun Awesome looking motor I will dream about this tonight.
Here are my stupid questions for the day. I am considering a complete engine rebuild myself this winter for my 87 N/A 2.5 L.
First what is the difference between the turbo rods and the N/A rods? Are they the same in function dement ions? Would it benefit me any if I where to replace the N/A with the turbo versions?
Second many people have discussed sleeving the cylinders. Would it be of any benefit to boar and sleeve the 2.5 possibly a bit over with lager rings or altogether different pistons?
Third knifing and lightning the crank sounds expensive to say the least I understand by lightening the components ie. Flywheel and crank you deliver more torque to the rear wheels more effectively but I am not certain this will make for a long life motor. What is your opinion on this John?
Fourth: you are using the stock head “Reworked with a large cam, This I can understand, With all this extra HP are you still going to attach the balance shafts to keep the motor smooth or is this for race only. Would it be possible to make this modification on my 2.5l and still maintain some degree of daily use i.e keep the balance shafts?
As I am sure you can tell I know just enough to get myself into trouble and that is not saying much. I though I would learn as I went and see what results I came up with. I suppose I will be sending the block out to be at very least honed to smooth out the boar on the cylinder walls because every one tells me I cannot do this myself. So that will be a major expense. I thought I would give the head rebuild a shot on my own as I have about half the necessary tools soon I will have most of the necessary tool to accomplish this task and the factory manuals to work from.
What recommendations to you all have for this.. It is going to be started in the Fall as soon as we hit our first below freezing day. So any help would be greatly appreciated.
08-09-2002, 02:00 AM
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Hi TaboII,
Lets see, I guess I'll try and answere your questions in the order you posted them.
"First what is the difference between the turbo rods and the N/A rods?"
THe NA rods are cast, and very weak and small in dimension at the top where they connect to the piston. With our motors pumping out as much as they do, we ALWAYS replace them with the Turbo model Forged Rods, much stronger, and we have enough on hand that we can match the weight and balnace them better than factory, this leads into another of your questions which I will address in this post.
"Would it be of any benefit to boar and sleeve the 2.5 possibly a bit over with lager rings or altogether different pistons?"
First off, its not new technology about the whole sleeving thing, it works, and it lasts if its done right...DONE RIGHT is the key phrase here :-) Secondly, your not saving any money if you sleeve the block and go "slightly over size", your already sleeving the block and borin it, there is no extra charge per mm of hole. If your going that far, go as big as is safe. Its the same charge , at least at our shop.
"Third knifing and lightning the crank sounds expensive to say the least I understand by lightening the components ie. Flywheel and crank you deliver more torque to the rear wheels more effectively but I am not certain this will make for a long life motor. What is your opinion on this John? "
THe crank work is VERY important, I would say, and for anyone that has done it, its the best mod you can do, for a turbo or NA, it builds load faster, makes the motor smooother to run (less mass) and the off throttle response will make you think your driving a different car! As for long life of the motor, heck yes, remeber, your modding the crank to provide more oil flow, have less rotational mass, less stress on the bearings and girdle, and it makes more power early, with less work on the entire motor. Definately a win win.
"Fourth: you are using the stock head “Reworked with a large cam, This I can understand, With all this extra HP are you still going to attach the balance shafts to keep the motor smooth or is this for race only. Would it be possible to make this modification on my 2.5l and still maintain some degree of daily use i.e keep the balance shafts? "
We are using a fully race prepped head, for our customers that desire. It is an 8 valve, with that has been tweaked and proven to perform. Anderson Motorworks was really looking into a 16 valve head, but after we found out it would place our engine (already at the limit in size) in another class we decided to work our 8 valve to the extreme that few has. THe power loss is actually a power gain. There is another vendor on the list that has popped up recently saying they have a 3.4..or 6 or something, with a 16 valve head that delivers 260 somthing to wheels, our engine with the fully worked 8 valve does that. And you elimnate the cost of starting with a 3 liter motor, and then adding the 16 valve head :-) Yes, you can save or delete the balance shafts, its your choice. We always work very closley with our customers, and each item however small is discussed in lenght to get a fully agreed upon solution.
I hope this helps out :-) YOu can always call at the shop to ask any questions, I'm available at any length to discuss motor issues :-)
Take Care!
Lets see, I guess I'll try and answere your questions in the order you posted them.
"First what is the difference between the turbo rods and the N/A rods?"
THe NA rods are cast, and very weak and small in dimension at the top where they connect to the piston. With our motors pumping out as much as they do, we ALWAYS replace them with the Turbo model Forged Rods, much stronger, and we have enough on hand that we can match the weight and balnace them better than factory, this leads into another of your questions which I will address in this post.
"Would it be of any benefit to boar and sleeve the 2.5 possibly a bit over with lager rings or altogether different pistons?"
First off, its not new technology about the whole sleeving thing, it works, and it lasts if its done right...DONE RIGHT is the key phrase here :-) Secondly, your not saving any money if you sleeve the block and go "slightly over size", your already sleeving the block and borin it, there is no extra charge per mm of hole. If your going that far, go as big as is safe. Its the same charge , at least at our shop.
"Third knifing and lightning the crank sounds expensive to say the least I understand by lightening the components ie. Flywheel and crank you deliver more torque to the rear wheels more effectively but I am not certain this will make for a long life motor. What is your opinion on this John? "
THe crank work is VERY important, I would say, and for anyone that has done it, its the best mod you can do, for a turbo or NA, it builds load faster, makes the motor smooother to run (less mass) and the off throttle response will make you think your driving a different car! As for long life of the motor, heck yes, remeber, your modding the crank to provide more oil flow, have less rotational mass, less stress on the bearings and girdle, and it makes more power early, with less work on the entire motor. Definately a win win.
"Fourth: you are using the stock head “Reworked with a large cam, This I can understand, With all this extra HP are you still going to attach the balance shafts to keep the motor smooth or is this for race only. Would it be possible to make this modification on my 2.5l and still maintain some degree of daily use i.e keep the balance shafts? "
We are using a fully race prepped head, for our customers that desire. It is an 8 valve, with that has been tweaked and proven to perform. Anderson Motorworks was really looking into a 16 valve head, but after we found out it would place our engine (already at the limit in size) in another class we decided to work our 8 valve to the extreme that few has. THe power loss is actually a power gain. There is another vendor on the list that has popped up recently saying they have a 3.4..or 6 or something, with a 16 valve head that delivers 260 somthing to wheels, our engine with the fully worked 8 valve does that. And you elimnate the cost of starting with a 3 liter motor, and then adding the 16 valve head :-) Yes, you can save or delete the balance shafts, its your choice. We always work very closley with our customers, and each item however small is discussed in lenght to get a fully agreed upon solution.
I hope this helps out :-) YOu can always call at the shop to ask any questions, I'm available at any length to discuss motor issues :-)
Take Care!