Is A/C freon conversion to R134 a DIY project?
03-09-2003, 09:57 PM
#16
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mixing is illigal because there is no way to evacuate and seperate the 2 to be recycled. Releaseing into the air is illigal anyway even if it is the R134 or whatever. It MUST be contained and recycled. He could get into quite a bit of trouble from what I have read on the subject... but like I said, I jumped into this thing about 4 days ago.
A lot of reading and trips to discount later I have cold air. Please correct me if I'm wrong on teh point above because I would like to know if what I read was right.
A lot of reading and trips to discount later I have cold air. Please correct me if I'm wrong on teh point above because I would like to know if what I read was right.
03-09-2003, 10:19 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
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sflraver, I'm not sure but I think your pressures are low. I think I heard you need to be up around 200psi. This is one thing I need to find out also. Hopefully someone else knows for sure.
Harbor Freight has a vacuum generator that runs off an air compressor. I was gonna get this to evacuate the old freon and moisture. It's only $15.99.
Harbor Freight has a vacuum generator that runs off an air compressor. I was gonna get this to evacuate the old freon and moisture. It's only $15.99.
03-09-2003, 10:22 PM
#18
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by tod84944:
<strong>Has anyone tried any of the "duracool" that is advertised in excellence. The guy that sells it in excellence is here in Nashville and I have thought of trying it. He advertises that it mixes with r-12 just like the real stuff.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I have not tried it and you should know that there are many who offer substitutes for R-12, but have you ever noticed that major companies never back this stuff. Part of the reason might have to with the content of the majic gas. for instance, one of the closest alternatives to R-12 is LP (yes, liquid patroleum... the stuff in your gas grill). It has one serious downside though, if ya get in a little ol accident, it tends to go ka-boom. So, if you're considering an R-12 substitute, one of the things that you want to be sure of is that it isn't in some part LP. Just a thought.
<strong>Has anyone tried any of the "duracool" that is advertised in excellence. The guy that sells it in excellence is here in Nashville and I have thought of trying it. He advertises that it mixes with r-12 just like the real stuff.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I have not tried it and you should know that there are many who offer substitutes for R-12, but have you ever noticed that major companies never back this stuff. Part of the reason might have to with the content of the majic gas. for instance, one of the closest alternatives to R-12 is LP (yes, liquid patroleum... the stuff in your gas grill). It has one serious downside though, if ya get in a little ol accident, it tends to go ka-boom. So, if you're considering an R-12 substitute, one of the things that you want to be sure of is that it isn't in some part LP. Just a thought.
03-09-2003, 10:23 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
I found this... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Can I service the system myself? This is difficult as the refrigerant has to be recovered. It is ILLEGAL to release the refrigerant into the environment. The system is also under high pressure and needs pulling into a deep vacuum to remove any moisture. Refrigerant can also cause frostbite.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">...and this...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Are the refrigerants environmentally friendly? No. R12 is ozone depleting and R134a contributes to the greenhouse effect. This is why they must NEVER be released into the atmosphere.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">... <a href="http://www.autoair.co.uk/faq.htm" target="_blank">here</a>
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">...and this...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Are the refrigerants environmentally friendly? No. R12 is ozone depleting and R134a contributes to the greenhouse effect. This is why they must NEVER be released into the atmosphere.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">... <a href="http://www.autoair.co.uk/faq.htm" target="_blank">here</a>
03-09-2003, 10:33 PM
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I have a vacuum pump.. but I was to lazy to find/make the fittings to hook it up. if my on/off problem doesn't get fixed soon I may evacuate the system and vacuum it.
as far as pressure that is a standing pressure, not running. I am going to check it when its on tomorrow. I put in the recommended amount.. 2.75 12 oz cans.. but thats the amount for r-12. Whats the difference in quantity needed between the 12 and the 134?
as far as pressure that is a standing pressure, not running. I am going to check it when its on tomorrow. I put in the recommended amount.. 2.75 12 oz cans.. but thats the amount for r-12. Whats the difference in quantity needed between the 12 and the 134?
03-09-2003, 11:41 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by sflraver:
<strong>I have a vacuum pump.. but I was to lazy to find/make the fittings to hook it up. if my on/off problem doesn't get fixed soon I may evacuate the system and vacuum it.
as far as pressure that is a standing pressure, not running. I am going to check it when its on tomorrow. I put in the recommended amount.. 2.75 12 oz cans.. but thats the amount for r-12. Whats the difference in quantity needed between the 12 and the 134?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You use about 80% 134 as compared to R-12
<strong>I have a vacuum pump.. but I was to lazy to find/make the fittings to hook it up. if my on/off problem doesn't get fixed soon I may evacuate the system and vacuum it.
as far as pressure that is a standing pressure, not running. I am going to check it when its on tomorrow. I put in the recommended amount.. 2.75 12 oz cans.. but thats the amount for r-12. Whats the difference in quantity needed between the 12 and the 134?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">You use about 80% 134 as compared to R-12
03-10-2003, 12:07 AM
#22
Burning Brakes
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OK, here's the process. I bought all the parts to do the conversion I was told to buy, drier, expansion valve, conversion kit. I called my mechanic about pulling a vacuum before I did the conversion myself. He asked me why I bought all those parts, were they bad before. I told him the guys at the auto parts store told me I had to replace them to do the conversion. He laughed, said return all the parts and bring me the car he would do the whole conversion with no parts for $75. I drove straight over.
He pulled the valve stem on the high side which is on the top in the engine compartment, in front of the master cylinder. Then he pulled the valve stem on the low side, underneath the car. Both high and low side valve stems have to be removed at this point before proceeding. He attached the 134 to the high side with the entire system open, ran for a couple minutes this flushed the system out. Then he put both valve stems back in to close system. Now he attached the 134 to the low side, which is the side you charge at, charged the system to full charge. WAH-LA, freeze your *** off A/C. I live where it gets hot as blazes and I can't keep it above 2 in the heat of the summer in traffic. 134 works awesome. I heard all the hype about 134 not working as well, wrong. It has been almost a year now and this A/C works great. After he showed me what he did I did the same conversion on 4 other cars and worked just as well on all of them. I was quoted everything from $500 to $700 to do the conversion, my mechanic laughed, he said this is the biggest scam going right now since R-12 is finished and you have to do the conversion eventually. Worked awesome for me..
Hope this helps, and saves you some money, for some good mods.... <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
He pulled the valve stem on the high side which is on the top in the engine compartment, in front of the master cylinder. Then he pulled the valve stem on the low side, underneath the car. Both high and low side valve stems have to be removed at this point before proceeding. He attached the 134 to the high side with the entire system open, ran for a couple minutes this flushed the system out. Then he put both valve stems back in to close system. Now he attached the 134 to the low side, which is the side you charge at, charged the system to full charge. WAH-LA, freeze your *** off A/C. I live where it gets hot as blazes and I can't keep it above 2 in the heat of the summer in traffic. 134 works awesome. I heard all the hype about 134 not working as well, wrong. It has been almost a year now and this A/C works great. After he showed me what he did I did the same conversion on 4 other cars and worked just as well on all of them. I was quoted everything from $500 to $700 to do the conversion, my mechanic laughed, he said this is the biggest scam going right now since R-12 is finished and you have to do the conversion eventually. Worked awesome for me..
Hope this helps, and saves you some money, for some good mods.... <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
03-10-2003, 10:28 AM
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Ok, just got back a few emails from Griff at <a href="http://www.griffiths.com" target="_blank">www.griffiths.com</a> and this is what he said was the correct way...
1. Recover the old refrigerant if the system has any whatsoever.
2. Assuming you dumped all the old mineral oil from the compressor, add 6
ounces of ester oil
to the compressor, install a new drier.
3. Evacuate the system (vacuum) for 1 hour.
4. Charge the system with approximately 30 to 31 ounces of R134a using
"professional" equipment,
such as a refrigerant scale under a 30 lb can or using a metered charge glass.
5. Check the high side and low side pressures with the system running against
Pressures and Temperatures
chart. The pressures will be very close to R12.
Griff
-----------------------------------------------
they have new a/c compressors over there if anyone finds them selves in that boat. Seems like a nice site/people and they are EXTREAMLY helpfull and prompt on there email replys.
1. Recover the old refrigerant if the system has any whatsoever.
2. Assuming you dumped all the old mineral oil from the compressor, add 6
ounces of ester oil
to the compressor, install a new drier.
3. Evacuate the system (vacuum) for 1 hour.
4. Charge the system with approximately 30 to 31 ounces of R134a using
"professional" equipment,
such as a refrigerant scale under a 30 lb can or using a metered charge glass.
5. Check the high side and low side pressures with the system running against
Pressures and Temperatures
chart. The pressures will be very close to R12.
Griff
-----------------------------------------------
they have new a/c compressors over there if anyone finds them selves in that boat. Seems like a nice site/people and they are EXTREAMLY helpfull and prompt on there email replys.
03-10-2003, 01:06 PM
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The guy at griffiths said to use the liquid ester oil after the system is dry and vacc'd. He has new dryers for $49 and I think I might pick one up for myself. He said part of my above problem might be moisture.
03-10-2003, 01:31 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> WAH-LA, freeze your *** off A/C. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That would be the FYAO level of A/C or one notch past MAX... <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
03-10-2003, 03:14 PM
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My AC system has an electrical fault or short somewhere.It is charged and the compressor is fine. As far as I know, all of the components are OK. But there is an electrical problem. I took it to the mechanics and they checked it out and told me this. They want alot to diagnose it so i am wondering if I should try to figure it out myself?
If so where do I start? What do i need?
If so where do I start? What do i need?
03-31-2003, 12:44 AM
#30
Three Wheelin'
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I've been doing some more research about the conversion. It sounds easy to fry your compressor if you have residual mineral oil left over from the R12. Flushing the old oil out is critical but how? Can it only be done w/ the expensive a/c machinery?
I think it's gonna be cheapest to take the $19.95, 3hr time limit, 25 question, on-line, open book exam and get legally certified so you can walk into your local auto store and buy R12 for 1/3 off retail shop cost in 1 pound cans. Then put new hoses myself and pay a shop to put my R12 in. <a href="http://www.epatest.com" target="_blank">www.epatest.com</a>
Did the 1993 & later 968 come with factory R134a? PET shows a different high pressure compressor cut-off switch as well as some other new stuff beginning in '93. R134 sees pressures a little higher than R12 so I'm wondering if getting a 968 R134 pressure switch would help a converted a/c cool better. I didn't see a low pressure switch that a 944 has.
Any help much appreciated!
I think it's gonna be cheapest to take the $19.95, 3hr time limit, 25 question, on-line, open book exam and get legally certified so you can walk into your local auto store and buy R12 for 1/3 off retail shop cost in 1 pound cans. Then put new hoses myself and pay a shop to put my R12 in. <a href="http://www.epatest.com" target="_blank">www.epatest.com</a>
Did the 1993 & later 968 come with factory R134a? PET shows a different high pressure compressor cut-off switch as well as some other new stuff beginning in '93. R134 sees pressures a little higher than R12 so I'm wondering if getting a 968 R134 pressure switch would help a converted a/c cool better. I didn't see a low pressure switch that a 944 has.
Any help much appreciated!