Okay...I've been told by everyone and their dog that the Big Red upgrade (or any other big brake upgrade) is for the '86+ 944 Turbos. Since I have the same bolt pattern, and a slightly different offset, I don't see why it just won't slap up to my hubs. Can someone please tell me in plain english, point blank, as to why they can't be used on my '83 944. I know there's a speedo difference in the early and late models, but I'm looking to put a Turbo tranny in mine so I'm not concernced with the mechanical speedo if that would be an issue at all. I would really appreciate any help/advice anyone could give me. Thanks.

 

Let's try this again.
You CAN do the upgrade.
The 4 piston calipers and larger disks that go with them can be put on your car.
To do it, you will also have to change a few other (related) parts.
The calipers mount to the spindles.
951 calipers go on 951 spindles.
You will need to install 951 spindles, they bolt on with little hassle.
951 spindles need 951 hubs, so get these too.
You have the same bolt pattern as ALL 944 series cars.
You have the same offset as the '86 951, so you want parts from an '86.
The 951 brakes are too large to fit inside a 15" wheel.
If you have 15" wheels they will not fit.
If your wheels are 16" or larger, you can keep them.
The '83 to '85.5 cars use a mechanical speedo, driven by the front wheel.
The '85.5 and later cars use an electronic speedo.
IIRC the trans sender sends a signal to the DME, which sends the signal to the speedo.
If this is correct, you will need a DME, wiring harness and speedo from an '85.5 or later 944.
Or drill a hole in the spindle.

 

Finally, someone gets it accross to me. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> I appreciate that clarification, now I will be able to stop faster than I take off. <img src="graemlins/oops.gif" border="0" alt="[oops]" /> Wait, that's a bad thing. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> Thanks again.

 

Glad to help, I'm not one of the brake experts here though, I'm sure someone will correct me if I left anything out. There was another thread on EXACTLY this conversion (maybe without the speedo issue) a few days ago.

Look for;
[quote] Bigger brakes are in my future! More Help please, Danno?!? <hr></blockquote>
It's currently on page 2 and addresses the adaptation of 944 struts to fit 951 spindles.
It's much more info than I can give you.

 

BTW, If you make it handle, you will need neither brakes, nor acceleration, as you will just keep going fast in the first place

 

Good brakes win race Grasshopper, all other factors equal of course. It lets you carry more speed later into the corner, allowing for a faster exit speed.

 

Not trying to throw a wrench into all this, but: I THINK that you will need 17" or larger rims, as opposed to 16". I have a Turbo S, and this is the way I've always understood it, but, since you have a different offset, you may be able to get by w/it(?). I DO know that some 16" rims will allow BR's, but, I wasn't aware that any of the Porsche 16"ers would. Again, I MAY be wrong here- just wanted to let you know, as it's something you should definately know for sure before starting....

 

Yes you will need 17's.......unless you have a set of 16"turbo S wheels laying around. And you will also need camber plates OR 87+ control arms.

 

16" Turbo S wheels? I have a Turbo S w/the 16" Club Sports, and have been told that they are not large enough to clear the calipers- is this not true? I've looked very closely at them, and there really isn't much room b/t the inner edge of the rim and the outer edge of the (STOCK) rotor and/or caliper- have I been misled, or is this an offset thing involving using my wheels on an earlier car? Please let me know- I'm very interested in this now...

 

The turbo s calipers are the same size as the big reds. Right???? This is what I have always been told. Danno???? Skip?????

 

*****The turbo s calipers are the same size as the big reds. Right???? This is what I have always been told. Danno???? Skip????? *****

No, they are most definately NOT the same size! BR calipers are a little bigger. Now, the PISTONS are the same size-
36mm & 44mm

BUT, SOME people/places (like KVR) say that Turbo S pistons are actually larger (38mm & 44mm) and that BR's are really made for rear engine car and are NOT BETTER than Turbo S calipers, BUT, ask the guys who track their cars, and they will tell you (99.9% of the time) that BR's are better- I don't think you would notice a dif on the street, however...

In any event, BR's use a larger pad- it's the same size and shape, except it's a few mm taller- I used to have the specs- they can be found online- there's a page about brake mods for Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4's that has a ton of links w/cool info on this stuff, etc- they use BR kits for their cars.

BR's have about 10% more pad than Turbo S, AND, USUALLY go w/larger rotors (although KVR contends that Turbo S can use larger rotors in the end- this doesn't make a ton of sense though- I think you can get as large a rotor on either one). BR's usually come w/larger rotors and are easier to find them for- Turbo S calipers are kind of an oddity- I've tried to hunt stuff for them it's a PITD!

Now, Turbo S calipers ARE the same as 928S4 calipers and BR's ARE the same as GTS (928 GTS) calipers- could you be confusing Turbo S (S4) calipers BR's b/c of this, thinking the Turbo S calipers were the same as 928GTS? Many times, when ordering BR's, for 951's, people actually get GTS- I believe it's b/c they are mounted differently, and are easier to mount (to 951) than the BR's are- not sure. I AM sure that BR/GTS are slightly larger than S4's, AND, that the main reason for not being able to use them w/16" rims, is b/c the BR is taller, which pushes their outer edge a hair farther out...

 

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH....I have been enlightened. I guess I am wrong......Thats what you get when you run 18's and it doesnt matter. Thanks Rob.

 

Okay, now that I have been well informed, does anybody know where I can get a set for the front and rear (I'll just go ahead and do a complete suspension swap to the Turbo)? I've seen kits for just the front, but not many 4-wheel kits or kits for the rear to keep a strong brake balance. Anyone know of any kits out there? They can be used, I can have the calipers recoated if necissary. Thanks a ton guys.

 

Brad-
Turby's trying to sell his- check his thread- "FED UP" I believe it's called- near the top right now- wait an hour or so and it'll be on page 4 He was asking $2K I believe, and that was all 4 w/rotors, etc- I'm not sure about the specs- e-mail him directly or something...

I would WANT to do all four if going for larger brakes too. Most people just do the fronts, which is fine, since the rears do so little overall- usually, you'd just do BR's w/stock Turbo rear calipers (unless your's is NA) and add a bias valve- 5/33 or 5/44- I wouldn't do the 5/44 unless you had ABS though- there was a guy recently, on one of these bias valve threads, who said he was going to a 5/44 on his track car b/c he had BR's and stock rears, and even the 5/33 wasn't quite enough for the rear. You would have to speak to someone like Danno or Skip if you wanted to get more technical on the bias valve thing (matching the right one, etc).

Another thing you COULD do is get an adj bias valve- that would be cool- about the same price, but I don't know anything about installing one- the Porsche bias valve (5/33, 5/44, 5/55, stock 951 is 5/18) go on the ABS unit itself I think- it's mounted under the right wheel somewhere- I was up in the car when my mechanic changed mine- about 6ft up, as we were about to bleed the new brake lines and fluid. Anyway, one other thing that some people do, when they have 951's (not Turbo S though) is add Big Reds and use their existing original FRONT calipers on the rear of their car- that way they get more caliper all the way around and don't have to BUY more than one pair of calipers- you can usually find front 951 calipers for cheap too. Not sure what you would want to do w/the bias valve in this case- probably not go over 5/33- but I DO know that at least a few people have done this. I like the idea of a full BR kit, especially if they are really red- the calipers will all match w/out painting AND, as I understand it (I COULD be wrong here) the BR rear caliper is the same size as the front w/the same size pad, only it has much smaller piston size- the prob w/using BR's and front 951 calipers (on rear) is that you will have SOOO much overall piston size- this can increase pedal travel- haven't really heard anyone complain when using front 951's on rear, though so maybe it's not TOO bad. The best upgrade (when using Brembos) is to get the GT2 monoblock calipers- they have even more pad than
BR's- you could use front 951 calipers or BR rears for the rear and have some bad-*** brakes- may need more master cylinder then- not sure- your weak link would definately not be the calipers then, that's for sure....

Sorry for the BOOK

 

IF you do the BR's on all 4 corners you certainly will need a brake bias valve. With the stock set up and BR's I found to much rear brake, I found that out the ungraceful way...

Adjustable brake bias valve works by restricting pressure to the rear brakes. I run mine on the first click (60/40 ?), though I am still playing with it.