p_tothe_g

Awesome, I think it may be the reman'd pump. I measure from the face of the pump (right next to the timing belt guide rail) to the forward face of the pulley lip/flange and I get 1.290". The part that's got me questioning is that is only 0.035" difference, still not a whole lot of clearance. I still think I'm going to run it and keep an assortment of tools in the car, if things get sketchy, I'll run it without a balance shaft belt until the winter.

Could fix it myself with a press in the shop, but cant pound the puley in further with it mounted to the car!! Very angry with quality control!!!

944Ross

Maybe someone will chime in with the measurement from gasket surface on a turbo-style pump; that should be what you have, right? Measuring off the casting surface is not the accurate way.

whalebird

P tothe G - Something about that up-close pick is kinda artsy, Nice pic aside of the question of the belt clearance. It doesn't seem exactly right. I would hate for you to have to take everything apart just to find a simple problem. You never know who has remaned the pump. Regardless of vender, there is a good chance that some yo - yo at Delco did it wrong. Reman parts are risky at best. It bids well that you have been observant enough to catch this. FYI, I am sure that the balance belt is the same on all the cars - the T-belt is wider on the 16v engines.

At second glance of your pics, the chrome belt guide on the water pump should also be fully "under" the T-belt. I can't exactly see in the picture, but the chrome belt guide attached to the water pump housing appears to be protruding outward from the timing belt. If in fact this is happening, you may want to start comparing part numbers and applications of different pumps to the one you have. There should be a Porsche part number stamped on your pump housing unless its a Remaned after market piece sold to you. I would want another pump in exchange.

p_tothe_g

Thanks for the comment on the pic, a camera with a good macro feature and the desire to get my point viewed makes all the difference.

I agree, something is funny with the water pump. It is reman'd, purchased thru paragon. Had the correct p/n on the box and when compared to the unit that was taken out (also a reman'd unit from previous owner that lasted 30k and 4 years), which was also purchased from paragon. Nothing about the new one stuck out as odd, and now it is too late to critically compare them, already sent in my core.

The timing belt seems to be riding fine, the belt guide is off center a bit, but everything else is riding dead center on all pulleys, idlers, and rollers. Just took it out for a romp and no abnormal noise. This is the first time out of 4 belt jobs that I didn't end up with the super charger style whine to the bal-belt. So far it is seems to be fine, just a very slight mark being left on the pulley and no apparent damage to the belt even after a few pulls to 6k rpm.

Gonna take a few photos to send to paragon and get his opinion. hopefully he will be cool about it and take care of the parts portion accordingly, usually when this happens though, we get screwed out of the time we spend on our backs for someone elses f'up.

Still looking for anyone with an S, S2, or 968 to take a peak at thier belt to water pump pulley clearance so I can get some idea if I am indeed screwed here, or if this is "close" to normal for the 16V cars.

Thanks for everybodies input so far!

944Ross

Looking at the TB on the WP pulley, it is riding about where mine do. Is it possible you have the tensioner and idler BB pulley swapped, or one of them flipped inside-out? Not sure you could even do that, but if you did it might shove the belt inwards more.

p_tothe_g

Double and tripple checked that all is on right. everything is new for the most part. New reman'd pump, new idlers and rollers about 7k ago, new belts, brand new spring tensioner.

I dunno, think it either a.o.k., or the pump is messed up. Checked all diagrams I could find, even in PET, and all instructions that could be found either through FSM or Clarks, even referenced the Haynes manual (which doesn't really cover the 16V) and everything is in place, in proper orientation. Everything seems to be 100% correct except the position of the water pump pulley.

Cass944

do you have the wires for the oil pressure sensor pinched between the water pump and the block? that will do that

whalebird

I thought the same thing^^^, but he said it drives good. If he pinched the wires he would know by now.

944Ross

I'm just finishing an 8V TB/BB job, so I took some pics of the area of interest...

p_tothe_g

alignment of your pulley and Timing belt look identical to my install. Looks like the edge of the belt is about 1/8" (or a touch less) from touching the flat lip of the water pump pulley, spot on to mine. And the location vertically of the balance shaft belt is almost identical too. Double checked the wires for oil press sending unit and they are free and not pinched, probably would have had a coolant leak by now if that were the case. Maybe what i see is what it is supposed to be with the wider belt, or there may be a different spec for the water pump pulley location on a 16V? If I push the belt directly vertical it does't touch the pulley, but with feeler guages I have less tha 0.015" before contact with the pulley. Statically, my balance belt is right where yours is vertically, but with the engine running at idle and with increased RPM the position of the belt gains elevation so it is occupying the entire flat area of the pulley. Thats what worries me, if the pulley hooks the belt, it will act like a meat slicer and shred that belt and send it right into the timing belt! But it could be correct, so far everything I see is what I've got, except the wider balance belt of the 16V.
Went out for a cautious 30 mile cruise and all seems cool still, no additonal marks on pulley, and no evidence of damage on the belt. Still need to see what paragon will say on Monday. And still need info or pics from somebody with a 16V to know if I need to really make a stink about this.

944Ross

Keeping in mind my engine hasn't been run with these belts yet (so they haven't found their "natural" position), yours looked very different. I couldn't get the camera directly above the pulleys, so the top view is still at an angle. The BB is 1/4" forward of the flange on the WP. If pushed towards the WP (perpendicular to the BB run), it would hit the conical section, not the pulley flange. It sure looked like yours would hit the flange?

p_tothe_g

So finally got some solid measurements. Chuck at Paragon measured my core (measured from front face of the casting to the front face of the flat lip on the pulley). He got 32.18mm, I finally got my hands on a small depth guage that let me measure the distance on my installed remanufactured pump, and I got 34.15mm. For those of us that can do math, that is almost 2mm different. 2mm of clearance to the balance shaft belt would give me the piece of mind to start driving this car again. Paragon has been informed of my dimensions, still waiting for him to get another reman'd pump in his hands, and still waiting to hear what they are going to do about this. that's the latest scoop. Still waiting to see if there are any other 16-valvers out there who know how to take off thier timing cover to take a rough dimension of where thier pulley is, anybody...?

thekraz

Hello. Just finishing a 1989 944 Turbo Water Pump and Timing Belt Service and ran into the same problem as you all have identified. HELP!!! I don't want to do this all over again and am really upset. I called Pelican Parts (where I bought the reman pump) and explained. Not getting too far. My belt touches the water pump pulley. The cam balance rollers are right. I measured from the casting of to the lip of the pulley on the original pump and it is 1/16" pressed in further than the reman. Bottom line, that 1/16" is the difference between. I don't have peace of mind running it the way it is. What was the outcome of your situation? Did you have to get a new water pump? Is anyone holding the reman company (Delco is it?) accountable for countless hours of 944 owners? Thank you...hope to hear from someone.

944Ross

Does it hit the conical part of the WP pulley, or the flange? Hitting the conical part is OK.

thekraz

It actuall hits both the conical part and the flange. It literally sites right up against both. Its just too close for comfort if you know what I mean. The stock water pump would provide the 1/16" clearance. I'm going to track down that reman company and talk to them. If this has been happening to others, someone has to be accountable. We are talking about a lot of man hours.
Thx