Wachuko

There are many providers of these machines:

Brands with affordable ($99-500.00)equipment:
Fuji
Apollo
Wagner
Campbell Hausfeld
Harbor Freight (99.00)

Any of you have any experienced with these?

What route should I take?

In case you are wondering what the heck I am asking about... These are High Volume Low Pressure Spray Paint Systems that use a turbine to heat the air, there is no need for a compressor (oil in the air if one is not careful, etc), less overspray, less use of paint, etc.

tifosiman

Wow, something that I have a LOT of knowledge about! I was a sales rep/manager in the paint business for 13+ years. HVLP systems have become much better since thier introduction in the 1980's. I can tell you that from my experience, the best units are made by Titan (or Titan/Speeflo as it is sometimes known). The Titan units have the best atomization of any of the HVLP's that I used to sell.

Mind if I ask.......What do you want to do with an HVLP unit? The application that you are trying will have a lot to do with the unit. There are very simple units that basically have a diffuser and run off of "shop air" ( a normal air compressor ), units that run off of a small 20" box that sound like a vacumm cleaner and use a 1 qt cup, and units that run off of a larger air unit and utilize a 5-qt "pressure-pot".

Tifo

Geo

I have a small Campbell-Hausfeld turbine unit (just over $200 IIRC). They highly recommend that you don't use them for painting cars if that is what you have it in mind for. In fact, mine was a return to Grizzly Tools and had evidence of being used to paint a car (or at least attempt it). My guess is that it didn't work out so well. It doesn't move enough air and atomazation is OK. I use it to finish woodworking projects.

I'm probably going to get a good HVLP gun to use with my compressor to paint my race car. There are a few names I've heard as being quite good. Binks is one of them. You probably want one like this (used with a compressor) if you are thinking about using one to paint your car. In fact, once I buy a new gun, I'll probably sell my CH set-up since it will probably never be used again. I'm sure it will do an even better job on my woodworking projects.

If you're thinking about getting a turbine unit, don't expect to save any money if you are wanting to paint your car. You will want a two or three stage unit for that to move enough air to atomize the finish properly as well as flow enough volume of finish.

Wachuko

Tifo, George,

I want to use it to paint my car. I want a HVLP system to avoid the amount of overspray generated by normal methods, also the paint comes out at about 112 Degrees (with a one stage paint I should have less mosquitos and dust stuck to the paint ), the amount of paint is less (less waste), etc.

Withe the exception of the Harbor Freight and Campbell Hausfeld the other brands I listed are 3 stage units... selling around US$500.00 There are the type of "units that run off of a small 20" box that sound like a vacuum cleaner and use a 1 qt cup"

Just wanted to get your experience before I take the plunge for one of these systems.

Since I am painting the car, I plan to do it in my garage, and since I have little experience doing so... I thought that these systems will take out some of the complexity of using a regular compressor and an old fashion spray gun...

Maybe I am overdoing it... and by using my compressor, a HVLP Spray gun made for a normal compressor, and some practice I will avoid the expense...

Geo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Jaime Diaz:
<strong>Just wanted to get your experience before I take the plunge for one of these systems.

Since I am painting the car, I plan to do it in my garage, and since I have little experience doing so... I thought that these systems will take out some of the complexity of using a regular compressor and an old fashion spray gun...

Maybe I am overdoing it... and by using my compressor, a HVLP Spray gun made for a normal compressor, and some practice I will avoid the expense...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">If you have a decent size compressor, I should think a good gravity feed gun for a compressor would do the trick. When I bought my turbine unit almost 10 years ago, the "conversion guns" (as they were called at the time) were not thought of as being as good as the turbine guns IIRC. It seems now that generally what most folks are using are the guns that are used with compressors, although I'm certainly not a professional in the industry.

I don't have any painting experience (only some woodworking finishing) and I plan on painting my race car with a HVLP gun using my compressor. I'm guessing the gravity feed gun will be better for me (and probably you too) since they seem to require less CFM and pressure than a pressure feed gun. My only concern is spraying the underside of the roof and the upper part of the cage. You can get a Binks M1G (gravity feed) off eBay for $239. This came very highly recommended to me by a couple of guys who lived next door while attending the UTI paint and body school here in Houston.

I hope Tifosiman can shed some additional light as I have some questions as well.

It seems to me that actually using the gun will require the same skill whether you use a turbine HVLP gun or a compressor HVLP gun. You still have air and fluid controls to get right, along with viscosity, distance, and gun speed (across teh surface).

I'm personally tempted to get a cheaper gun since I'm only painting a race car and they only need to look good from 20 feet away or more, but then I will certainly use it for woodworking projects, so I'm torn.

If you are interested in more info on turbine set-ups, American Woodworker magazine did an article on them ten years ago and I have it somewhere. I would suggest checking American Woodworker, Fine Woodworking, and a few other woodworking magazines for more recent articles on more modern equipment.

tifosiman

Have a look at <a href="http://www.titantool.com/" target="_blank">http://www.titantool.com/</a> at the "Vision Gun". It is designed to work with a compressor and "shop air". It has very good atomization and very low overspray. You can get a flexible pick-up line for in the cup so that you can paint above your head at odd angles.

Now, two things.

1. You really don't want a "heated" air stream, as it will make the product in the cup cure too fast. HVLP's of old used to suffer from this issue, but with improved technology heated air is not an issue anymore.

2. I have painted two Pro-Rally cars with an HVLP system. I would say that the quality is so-so. Not good enough for a street car, IMHO. I'd say the quality is good enough for "50/50"---50 feet away at 50mph.

HVLP's are very good for woodworking and doing trim-packages in new home construction. Basically, the way to think about them is use them anywhere you would ordinarilly need a brush. Very large areas like walls (where you would want a roller) require an airless sprayer system. Not sure if I would buy one specifically for painting a car.

Hope that helps!

Tifo

Stephen

Jaime,

I am a professional painter by trade(13 yrs exp.), and I own a company (Ultimate Appearance Fran. Inc.)that provides a mobile paint service for the dealer network- including new car warranty work. I personally stock my vans( 45)with the Graco 4-stage system model #3800, very good quality and very reliable.
Call C.J Spray ask for Jim and use my name, he basically designed the first automotive "cross-over" system(Criox) that most are designed after today.Hope this helps.

Stephen Shattuck

Wachuko

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Stephen:
<strong>Jaime,

I am a professional painter by trade(13 yrs exp.), and I own a company (Ultimate Appearance Fran. Inc.)that provides a mobile paint service for the dealer network- including new car warranty work. I personally stock my vans( 45)with the Graco 4-stage system model #3800, very good quality and very reliable.
Call C.J Spray ask for Jim and use my name, he basically designed the first automotive "cross-over" system(Criox) that most are designed after today.Hope this helps.

Stephen Shattuck</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Called Jim, we got disconnected so I need to call back again. Model 750: The C.J. Spray model 750 is the same turbine system as the Graco GTS 3800. Is a 3 stage system. Nice setup. He gave me a $50.00 discount from what it usually goes for.

I will have to call back tomorrow to order (need to discuss the expense with the wife... maybe I can tell her it is one of those parts that was on backorder )...

Thanks!

Geo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by tifosiman:
<strong>2. I have painted two Pro-Rally cars with an HVLP system. I would say that the quality is so-so. Not good enough for a street car, IMHO. I'd say the quality is good enough for "50/50"---50 feet away at 50mph. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I'm surprised you'd say that. I know that most bodyshops and all OEMs use HVLP these days. The paint savings alone made the changeover pay for itself at the OEMs.