Flick

If I may hijack this thread for a second- in your collective experience what is the most likely causes of the A/C failing? Just how ineffective is it? (I know that's hard to quantify)

Thanks in advance

WizPorsche944

Is there a 944 with working A/C ?????

DarylJ

If you want non-ASE certified advice, I'd have to say most problems I've encountered on older stuff like these cars are rotten (leaking) rubber bits (seals and hoses) followed by leaking condensors (the coils in the cabin).

But that's the "mystery" no cooling. You need to look at the easy stuff first - when you hit the A/C button, does the light turn on? Does one of the electric fans in the engine compartment turn on? If not, think fuses, followed by components and wiring.

If you get lights and fans and you can't hear the compressor turn on, start thinking about a low pressure cut off switch. It could be right (that you have no pressure) or it could be broken. How you proceed depends on if you have a set of gauges to qualify if you have pressure in the system or not. Yes, bypassing the low pressure cut off switch is a risk, but I don't see it as a big one, so, if I didn't have gauges, I'd bypass and see if it cools off and check the site glass for coolant flow for a bit.

Buy Harbor Freight gauges if you want....I buy a lot of HF crap. But anything that needs to be rated to hold 600 PSI so I don't get a refrigerant burn simply doesn't come from them. You can get a nice set of quality used gauges from Re-Tool or similar used tool place (or eBay, I'm sure) for about double that ($60). And then sell them when you're done if you really want. I don't like compromising on high-pressure hoses or other things that can possibly hurt me if at all possible.

Not to mention the fact that when you hook up your gauges and find that the system is in fact empty, you still need a vacuum pump to check if it will hold anything ($15 from HF all the way, baby! ...as long as you have good shop air).

amac944

Thanks for all the help guys. Actually your argument has given me a lot of ideas!

I think I might just take it to a reputable shop and have them diagnose the problem (I know a shop here that is quite honest.)

DarylJ

lol...good to know.

Yes, it's tough to tackle these things totally yourself. But if you find a good show that can do some initial diagnosis and find that you have a leak, hopefully they give you some pointers, let you get in there and order/replace stuff, then you can bring it back for them to vac again. If it holds, have them fill it. If not, try again with some other things.

Good shops have been known to do this.

Flick

Thanks Daryl (love your sig by the way) I shall have a brief look at what goes on tomorrow as I've never turned the AC on to see what happened. I bought the car 2 months ago and the seller did say the A/C didn't work and admitted he was too scared of the potential bills to get it investigated The car is a peach otherwise.

m73m95

One thing you have to be careful of .... it is illegal for a shop to refill your system (or give it back to you knowing you are going to refill it yourself) without fixing all known leaks. Its an EPA thing.

So if you take your car to a shop and ask them to find the leaks so you can fix them at home, they will likely turn you away. So, if you want a shop to look at it, then just have them do all of it, diagnose, fix, and fill.

You kind of need to be under the table (hush hush) about working on your own AC system. Especially if you still have r-12 in the system. One of your neighbors could make a quick phone call, and you will get a "bill" from the government

Flick, thats a hard question to answer because there are apparently a lot of weak spots in the 944 AC system.

Wizporche944 actually had the best statement/question to help you out lol.

amac944

So if I take it in for diagnosis, they pretty much have my car hostage until I pay them $1000 in repairs? I find that very hard to believe...

m73m95

No, you can opt to have them do nothing...

All I am saying is, they aren't supposed to do anything to your AC system if it leaks. (Some shops will, but it is against the law)

It is against the law to evacuate any AC system without the proper evacuation setup. It must capture all of the old refrigerant and oil without releasing any into the atmosphere. A leak is releasing refrigerant into the atmosphere, so if a shop knows about the leak, and returns the vehicle to you, they can be fined by the EPA.

Also, r-12 is no longer being made, and all remaining quantities are illegal to sell to anyone with the EPA license (easy to get online)
r-134 is legal to sell to anyone, but is still monitored by the EPA. It can be put into an AC system providing you have a proper way to fill it (gauges) but it is still illegal to evacuate unless you have a proper evacuation system.

JohnKoaWood

My 88 N/A has frosty AC, but a spun ballance shaft bearing, and I am having too much fun working on my 951 (bad AC BTW) to fix it...

Nope, you can have them diagnose it and give you a written estimate for the work, that estimate SHOULD list all components needing to be fixed/changed, the ammount of shop labor expected, and any consumable items (leak detector, R134/R12, etc.) that will be required to fix the system...

AS for working on your own AC... IF you take it to a shop for service on the AC, and they report back that X, Y, and Z need fixed you can decline repairs, and tell them to evacuate all refrigerant... hance no "Bill from the govt", Plus a private citizen without ASE cert or EPA RXXX permit CAN work on their own equipment, they just CAN'T purchase or posses those materials that are controlled/prohibited (R12, which is no longer manufactured, and is prohibitively expensive from DBs who have it and teh EPA cert to go along with it) but that is another dicussion, you cant get your hands on R12 anymore, don't bother trying, you will either end up with a tank of propane, or some other aromatic gas that MIGHT work, but also MIGHT explode...

Those without the experience or equipment for dealing with the AC system should always use a certified shop for at least evacuation of the system and diagnosis of the faults, it will help out in teh long run, and give you an idea of what you are in for when you decide to replace the parts yourself... Just remember, ALWAYS use the proper lubricant on the seals/o-rings, the proper O-rings and other materials for the type/family of refrigerants you are going to have the system charged with...

Some light reading for you all, and always play the ignorance card, the EPA loves that excuse...http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/609/...rs/choice.html

of NOTE it this...
"All service technicians handling air conditioner refrigerants must be certified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and should be able to answer all of your air conditioner repair questions. See below for more information on the connection between CFCs and the environment."

Are you a Service Technicians (almost same rules apply to EMTs, did you know in MOST states it is ILLEGAL for an EMT to NOT render aid unless they are incapable for some physical or mental reason...) Private citizens SHOULD be aware of the laws, but there is NO way to tell what it was you vented out of your car in front of your house, other than the trace ammounts that will still be trapped in your AC system (read, take it to a shop, have THEM evacuate all refrigerant, have a ball replacing parts, make sure your new parts are compatable with the refrigerant you are going to use, once repairs are done take it back to the shop, have them evacuate the system, if no leaks have them charge the system... No harm, no foul, no sweat (other than from your brow working to pay for all teh new parts...)

m73m95

Yes.... Thank you JohnKoaWood ....

DarylJ

Exactly. Anbd if they tell you otherwise (that's its illegal) you need to find a shop that isn't out to screw you.

It it also true they can't fill a system that has any known leaks. Which is why they vac it first after your repairs (necessary after opening it anyway) and, if it holds, they can fill it. As I said before.

This isn't rocket science, but plenty of shops that just want to grab all the work they can get/can't be bothered with someone likely to do most of their own labor just won't be interested. Which is also why I said that GOOD shops have been know to do this.

JohnKoaWood

Any shop with the equipment CAN evacuate teh system, and return it to the owner EMPTY...

Good luck evacuating an AC system without the equipment, (venting is one thing, evacuating is something entirely different) or a NICE tap and die set to make your own custom fittings to use OTHER equipment to connect to your AC fittings.... still on topic, M73M95, have you EVER seen a screw on adapter that will allow a can of HFC-134a to a R12 gauge set... I have... saw it today in fact... OR how about adapt a canister of R12 (R22) to a 134a gauge set? Yup seen one of them too...

CFC-12 (Dichlorodifluoromethane) is still manufactured in China (Hangzhou HMTEK Electric Co.,Ltd and Zhejiang Yonghe New Type Refrigerant Co.,LTD are 2 sources) BUT you WILL goto jail if you EVER thought about trying to smuggle it into the US, EU, or a laundry list of other countries, YOU can request an import liscense as it has SOME industrial uses, but the EPA (US) will deny the request, and tell you to find an alternative... China still uses it, and vents it to atmosphere, but their GOVT is starting to get the idea that the rest of the world wants nothing to do with it... Not trying to be kurt, just trying to point out that your info isn't 100% acurate, but is definately in line with the EPA regulations and rules.

m73m95

Thats like saying the VW beetle (the real one, not the one they sell today) is still in production, because they make it in Brazil and Mexico. The original is no longer in production..... It isn't being manufactured in any quantity, form, or place that you would have gotten it from when it was available or any place it would be feasible to get now.....

Why all the **** if my information is correct?

You guys can do whatever you like with your cars, including your AC system. If you wanna open the tap and let it all bleed out, then do it. You act like I'm feeding you all a line of BS. If you want to call me out because I used the incorrect definition of "evacuate" when the point of my story is has nothing to do with the definition of evacuate, then I think you might have to much time on your hands. I think it was clear to just about everyone else reading that I used the term to illustrate the point of bleeding the system to open air (in your garage).

Damn. If you're gonna be a bitch about something, then do it when I'm wrong...... callin me out because I didn't use "evacuate" to Websters standards...but other than that, my information was correct..... what a puss....

ksucat90

Man, I love this thread, good information and great back and forth bickering.