savage944

Information I have gathered on the basics of the Block and related parts:

· The 944 NA and turbo blocks are the same, the only difference is the oil line coming off the balance shaft cover (for the turbo). This is easily fixed by running an oil line from the oil filter area and using a Canton type filter with a fitting on the top.

· The 944 NA and turbo heads are the same except for the ceramic coating in the exhaust ports and the sodium filled exhaust valves. The are some race folks that use NA heads on turbos so that they can port the exhaust. Should not worry about the ceramic for your application – can use NA head.

· Cams – the 82 to 85.5 NA cam is the same as the turbo cam!

· The crank is the same.

· The connecting rods on the early NA’s were forged (cast after 85.5). The early turbos were also forged and then cast in the end of the run.

· The flywheel / clutch / pressure plate is different but it shares the same crank bolt pattern.

Using a turbo intercooler – in reality the larger the intercooler the lower the boost loss. There is not much air volume in the intercooler so don’t have to worry about added lag or boost loss, it is the constrictions that cause boost loss.

SO can use a used intercooler form a non Porsche and mount it in front of radiator or side mount, etc… just requires adequate plumbing to prevent restrictions.

Of course people recommend this, but its to expensive for now ----> going with a stand alone engine management system.

Still need the ability to really tune your system. ---> upgrade to late model or turbo DME and use a MAP sensor upgrade

Research into MAP KIT shows: Neither of our Stg.1 or Stg.2 MAP kits will work with an NA. We'd have to make up a custom pipe configuration since the inlets will be different. Not that difficult.

Also on the car, it has a 8v AFM which means you can't use a MAF
anyway. A MAP-sensor box should work with that voltage range, but haven't actually tried it. I know that it's adjustable within that range.

My suggestion on fuel-management is to upgrade to larger injectors, say stock 951 injectors (they're a dime a dozen). This will give
roughly 50% more total fuel-flow capacity. Then you can use the 3D-mapping capability of the MAP box to fine-tune your mixtures. This will require dialing back fuel in the low-end/idle ranges to account for the larger injectors. And dialing in more fuel in the high-load/upper-RPM ranges to match the increased flow from boost.

Arguments in favor of stand alone:
One of the keys to a force fed engine is a the big change in ignition timing. Typically a turbo set up will not run more than 20 degrees of advance at boost while a NA may see up to 40 degrees. This needs to be variable by boost not RPM so the NA DME can’t really deal with this. The other plus of the stand-alone is that you can swap from turbo to super and retain the management system with just a couple of programming changes.

I am going the MAP upgrade route, will try that out. Its cheaper than stand alone and I can custom program the chip. I can always use a check valve to trick sensor if need be so it doesn’t see boost. Manual Boost control limited amount of boost till I get it sorted out.

Other items needed to convert to turbo –
· Engine support (drivers side) – this is the mounting point for the turbo and the route for the turbo oil return.

· Turbo oil pan and oil return hose. This is the turbo oil return system.

· Electric turbo coolant pump and associated plumbing / wiring (the turbo coolant pump could be controlled by the tec3 if used)

· Wastegate – most wastegates have a minimum boost setting that is higher than you want to run. This will require an aftermarket wastegate and special spring.

· Turbo injectors

· Double check to make sure that the system does not pressurize the brake booster. The turbos have a system so that a venture set up keeps boost from entering the brake booster (along with a check valve).

· Turbo exhaust and intercooler parts (and heat shields)

· Turbo intake system.

· Turbo idle air control system
I have some of the parts, gathering the others. For the turbo I have 2 models one uses water in addition to oil and the other is just oil setup.

Playing around with adding a fan behind the intercooler to increase flow across intercooler--> if front mounted, should also contributed to increase flow across the radiator.

Other possibilities include using a Ford thunderbird 2.3 intercooler or two and setting up a ram/cold air vent to blow air into and across intercooler, same type setup as thunderbird. --> requires mounting the intercooler under hood… clearance might be and issue, may require custom hood--->I kind of want that look anyway. Something that might complement body lines without looking to Rice. Say like the Mustang Cobra RR hood-->aftermarket piece. Lot of possibilities to stand out.

Ok so bottom line I am doing this and it’s a Junkyard Dog/Ebay Special. Money is a restriction, cant afford a pre-made kit, or a 951. Well I may eventually get a 951 for certain class SCCA and PCA races, but that’s not in the budget. I am doing this paycheck to paycheck.

I wanted to save this Porsche from destruction after it was totaled I did, I am working on a website with the pictures of before and after. It was a mess the old owner did a number on her, but she is getting there.

I will post more to this topic as I have the information put together.

Once I have the website setup I will list all the information I can.

There are lots of reasons not to do this, but there is one reason, the best reason to do;
“To see if I can!”

Thanks
Wes

<img border="0" alt="[icon107]" title="" src="graemlins/icon107.gif" />

savage944

Ok looks like I hosed the picture listings, well the point is they are available in my yahoo brief case, shows the damage to the exterior. hood, fenders, passenger rear quarter, driver door, roof driver side, dent and cuts along sil and door frame. I have repaired all that except the right rear quarter, interior was excellent. Had clear title, was dirt cheap and runs like a dream.

ERAU-944

i understood that just '83 models had forged rods??? and then '86 951's had forged rods as well... do all early cars have forged rods???

Ben Plaisted

Good luck with this, I can't wait to see how it turns out!!

ian

Looks like you did your research, I would think that this is very complicated to pull off, but anything is possible given enough time...

Just don't forget the suspension, and brakes....

Crippler

Well I just finished a Callaway turbo conversion to my 84 944. Mine didn't come with forged rods, however it now has 951 pistons and forged rods.

Take your time, do it right and you won't be dissapointed. However it is cheaper to buy a 951, but I love my car and don't care. lol

Best of luck to you

Ken

If I was ever going to bring an early NA back to life, I'd forget about the turbo and just drop a 968 motor in there. Strip it down to about 2400lbs and have a blast messing with turbos. Good luck with this though.

nine-44

I'm doing a 951 engine swap, seemed to be the way to go. I'm happy I made the decision to swap. She'll be done soon, can't wait. Good luck man, glad to see more turbos in NA skin!

Jonas Goldsmith

Ok, that is way to much for me to read... now, its a cool idea to turbo an NA, but that will always bring up the question, why not just buy a turbo?

savage944

Ok Pages are under construction, but posted some basic <a href="http://www.geocities.com/savage944/index.html" target="_blank">Pictures</a>

Just click on the Link(pictures)

nine-44

Easy, I have as much fun working on it and upgrading it as I do driving it. With many mods planned and no plans to ever stop building up, why pay for 951 equipment that would be upgraded anyway. Also, find a 951 that has evey mod you want and you know every bolt is as tight as YOU want it for the same price. I am a builder, driver, enthusiast etc...I love wrenching on my can when it's going foreward, and not just fixing stuff. I know what has been done and have taken care of things that bug me on the stock 951. I like to build my own cars rather than buy or pay someone to do it. Nothing wrong with it,it's just my style. I'm not on rant, don't take it wrong, I just really like to be the one working on my car. I trust me, and if anything happens, I'm to blame. I am a car nut, no, I'm a car freak! And I love it

Red 944

Doesn't seem like you're going all for power, just bringing it up to a little past stock turbo. Seems like a lot of work for an almost factory setup.

savage944

I agree with nine-44. Its the wrenching on the car. Sure ANYONE can buy a 951 and drive it and have fun, etc... But how many people can claim, I built this, I did this, I replaced that oh and this was a real bear... Lots of fun, lots of stories, one heck of a good time... Doing it on a budget is even better... Its a challenge.

Their is always the easy way, but why bother... carve your own path... Everyone has their own opinion... but like I said anyone can buy a 951.

Its like classic cars.... anyone can restore one... but a few carve one up and make something more of it ... Ok to much philosophy... bottom line, the journey, the task and the goal are as much a part of the equation as the final product.

I have owned a lot of cars over the years but only the ones I really wrenched on have stuck with me.

If it takes me 2 months or 2 years or is never finished I will be happy driving and wrenching away... heck my favorite color is primer gray and yes I think the whole car would look great in primer gray hahaha.... click on the link for
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/savage944/ipage2.htm" target="_blank">More pictures</a>

savage944

ERAU-944 From what I have found in my research is yes the early cars all had forged pistons... but like anything else anything is possible on the assembly line.

Red 944

Well worded and a great answer! Enjoy the project and keep us posted. I can't say I disagree with you either -&gt; I'm building an engine for my little Scorpion that's going to have 10:1 compression and still only put out about 160 horses -&gt; and it's not cheap! Have a good time with the project