968 headlight design - why?
07-06-2003 | 07:32 AM
#16
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,053
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From: Canada
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by led:
<strong>968 headlights are fixed right? maybe it was...
...for better aerodynamics at night?
...because they are more reliable than pop up headlights?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">More reliable then popup headlights?? Aren't the 968 headlights popup aswell?
<strong>968 headlights are fixed right? maybe it was...
...for better aerodynamics at night?
...because they are more reliable than pop up headlights?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">More reliable then popup headlights?? Aren't the 968 headlights popup aswell?
07-06-2003 | 01:04 PM
#18
Racer
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 418
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From: Bellevue, Washington
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Damian in NJ:
<strong>Styling I'm sure, but as many 968 owners previously owned 944's will tell you-they give much improved night illumination. The difference is very dramatic between the pop up 944 variants and the 968 lamps.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That "world of difference" seems most likely due to the fact that the 968 lights are H4 units whereas the 924/944/924S lights are sealed beam units. I'm willing to bet that a 924/944/924S with the Hella H4 conversion will be every bit as good with night-time illumination.
To the best of my knowledge, the headlights on the 968 were changed for purely aesthetic reasons (the 968 was advertised as "80% new", Porsche wanted to separate it from the 944 as much as possible). The headlights were changed to make the car look more like the 928 and the front valence and fenders were changed to bring more resemblance to the 911. At least, that's what I've read.
Aaron
<strong>Styling I'm sure, but as many 968 owners previously owned 944's will tell you-they give much improved night illumination. The difference is very dramatic between the pop up 944 variants and the 968 lamps.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That "world of difference" seems most likely due to the fact that the 968 lights are H4 units whereas the 924/944/924S lights are sealed beam units. I'm willing to bet that a 924/944/924S with the Hella H4 conversion will be every bit as good with night-time illumination.
To the best of my knowledge, the headlights on the 968 were changed for purely aesthetic reasons (the 968 was advertised as "80% new", Porsche wanted to separate it from the 944 as much as possible). The headlights were changed to make the car look more like the 928 and the front valence and fenders were changed to bring more resemblance to the 911. At least, that's what I've read.
Aaron
07-06-2003 | 01:18 PM
#19
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
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Aaron, to quote Morgan's book "The headlamps were a significant improvement over those of the 944, featuring a reflector system with variable focus to improve light dissipation."
Even the driving and fog lamps were improved by a factor of 30%.
80% of the car was changed from the 944, and this is one of the improvements.
Even the driving and fog lamps were improved by a factor of 30%.
80% of the car was changed from the 944, and this is one of the improvements.
07-06-2003 | 04:14 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,598
Likes: 1
From: San Juan, PR
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 944S2NUT:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by led:
<strong>968 headlights are fixed right? maybe it was...
...for better aerodynamics at night?
...because they are more reliable than pop up headlights?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">More reliable then popup headlights?? Aren't the 968 headlights popup aswell?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I thought they were fixed...
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by led:
<strong>968 headlights are fixed right? maybe it was...
...for better aerodynamics at night?
...because they are more reliable than pop up headlights?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">More reliable then popup headlights?? Aren't the 968 headlights popup aswell?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I thought they were fixed...
07-06-2003 | 05:26 PM
#23
Racer
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 418
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From: Bellevue, Washington
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Damian in NJ:
<strong>Aaron, to quote Morgan's book "The headlamps were a significant improvement over those of the 944, featuring a reflector system with variable focus to improve light dissipation."
Even the driving and fog lamps were improved by a factor of 30%.
80% of the car was changed from the 944, and this is one of the improvements.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That's exactly what I said. The 944 uses an antique sealed beam setup which negates the possiblity of using an H4 reflector-beam setup. (I should add that US regulations when the 944 was designed required sealed beam units, so Porsche had no choice initially, and the cost of a changeover to please only the US market late in the 944's life wasn't really an option.) If you convert the 944 to a European-spec Hella H4 reflector beam system (~$70 per light at the highest quoted price I've seen), it should match the 968's light output. The Hella conversion kits are widely available and are a bolt-in alteration.
I never said that the headlights weren't improved. What I said was that the main reason for the improvement was the decision to do away with the antiquated sealed beam headlights and instead use an H4 bulb setup.
The improvement in light output is unrelated to the method in which the headlights raise or lowered. The change in the function of the headlamp lifting/retracting system is purely aesthetic. The increased light output is due only to changes in the reflector, lens, and bulb, and all of those changes can be made quickly and easily to the 924/944/924S with only a set of screwdrivers.
Aaron
<strong>Aaron, to quote Morgan's book "The headlamps were a significant improvement over those of the 944, featuring a reflector system with variable focus to improve light dissipation."
Even the driving and fog lamps were improved by a factor of 30%.
80% of the car was changed from the 944, and this is one of the improvements.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That's exactly what I said. The 944 uses an antique sealed beam setup which negates the possiblity of using an H4 reflector-beam setup. (I should add that US regulations when the 944 was designed required sealed beam units, so Porsche had no choice initially, and the cost of a changeover to please only the US market late in the 944's life wasn't really an option.) If you convert the 944 to a European-spec Hella H4 reflector beam system (~$70 per light at the highest quoted price I've seen), it should match the 968's light output. The Hella conversion kits are widely available and are a bolt-in alteration.
I never said that the headlights weren't improved. What I said was that the main reason for the improvement was the decision to do away with the antiquated sealed beam headlights and instead use an H4 bulb setup.
The improvement in light output is unrelated to the method in which the headlights raise or lowered. The change in the function of the headlamp lifting/retracting system is purely aesthetic. The increased light output is due only to changes in the reflector, lens, and bulb, and all of those changes can be made quickly and easily to the 924/944/924S with only a set of screwdrivers.
Aaron
07-07-2003 | 02:01 AM
#28
Racer
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 418
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From: Bellevue, Washington
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by kgain968:
<strong>stupid question.......but what does "sealed beam" mean? You cannot replace the bulb itself? Only the entire unit??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yup, sealed beam units require replacement of the entire lens assembly. They were mandated by the USDOT until the 1980's. Sealed beam units have inferior light output and the round sealed beam combo high/low units in particular seem to have very poor beam pattern. I had a car with the rectangular sealed beam units and it was much better than either my 914 or 924S, both of which use round sealed beams. Re-engineering a car that used sealed-beams to use a "normal" headlight wasn't worth the effort for just the headlights so most manufacturers didn't move to an H4 system until a model re-style.
This explains why the 944's built after sealed beams were no longer mandated still used sealed beams and why the 968 moved away from sealed beams.
Aaron
<strong>stupid question.......but what does "sealed beam" mean? You cannot replace the bulb itself? Only the entire unit??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yup, sealed beam units require replacement of the entire lens assembly. They were mandated by the USDOT until the 1980's. Sealed beam units have inferior light output and the round sealed beam combo high/low units in particular seem to have very poor beam pattern. I had a car with the rectangular sealed beam units and it was much better than either my 914 or 924S, both of which use round sealed beams. Re-engineering a car that used sealed-beams to use a "normal" headlight wasn't worth the effort for just the headlights so most manufacturers didn't move to an H4 system until a model re-style.
This explains why the 944's built after sealed beams were no longer mandated still used sealed beams and why the 968 moved away from sealed beams.
Aaron
07-07-2003 | 02:05 AM
#29
Racer
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 418
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From: Bellevue, Washington
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by glen2002:
<strong>ZV,
For your reference, ROW cars were always H4, from day one.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">ROW H4 doesn't have the US-spec beam pattern though, and that makes a lot of difference in my experience. Simply changing from a US reflecter to a Euro reflector will give a marked improvement though it's not technically USDOT approved.
Was the book quote refering to an improvement over all 944's or was the book written about US-spec Porsches? I had assumed we were talking about US-spec cars only. Naturally the Euro cars (without the hinderance of ****-poor US headlight regulations) had H4 units.
Aaron
<strong>ZV,
For your reference, ROW cars were always H4, from day one.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">ROW H4 doesn't have the US-spec beam pattern though, and that makes a lot of difference in my experience. Simply changing from a US reflecter to a Euro reflector will give a marked improvement though it's not technically USDOT approved.
Was the book quote refering to an improvement over all 944's or was the book written about US-spec Porsches? I had assumed we were talking about US-spec cars only. Naturally the Euro cars (without the hinderance of ****-poor US headlight regulations) had H4 units.
Aaron
07-07-2003 | 08:08 PM
#30
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,195
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Go look at a 968 lamp assembly, and look at a 944 lamp assembly. They are shaped differently. I know many people who have upgraded their 911's to H4's, and it is indeed a straight swap. The fact that the 968 lamp body is so much different is that more was done than just swapping bulbs.
To fully quote Morgan on the driving/fog lamps, "The integrated driving and fog lights had BETTER FOCUSED REFLECTORS which improved roadside illumination by up to 30% compared to the S2's units, as well as reducing dazzle in fog." (Caps mine). In both the headlamps and driving/fog lamps he stresses the change in the reflecting system, not the bulb system.
Why the reluctance to admit that the change to the lay down headlamps was something other than a stylistic change? If you switch your 924/944 to H4's will you get the variable focus and better focused reflectors identical to the 968's? Nope, and the lighting won't be the same.
To fully quote Morgan on the driving/fog lamps, "The integrated driving and fog lights had BETTER FOCUSED REFLECTORS which improved roadside illumination by up to 30% compared to the S2's units, as well as reducing dazzle in fog." (Caps mine). In both the headlamps and driving/fog lamps he stresses the change in the reflecting system, not the bulb system.
Why the reluctance to admit that the change to the lay down headlamps was something other than a stylistic change? If you switch your 924/944 to H4's will you get the variable focus and better focused reflectors identical to the 968's? Nope, and the lighting won't be the same.
