adrial

The dyno is the type that bolts up to the hubs...It's a "dynapack" chassis dyno. They would do the runs in 4th gear, as well as start out in 4th gear. It seems odd to me...but what do I know?
btw, even though the charts say fly wheel torque/hp its actually wheel.

Here's torque/hp:


here's torque/air fuel curve:


here's boost:


here's stock from the manual (flywheel hp vs wheel hp for the others):


On the road, I get full boost around 3500-4000rpm. It hits ~.7 bar around 3500 and by 3700 I see .8bar. Around 3100 I start seeing the gauge shoot up.

Here's my take:
The torque curve is way flatter in the manual than what I got, I attribute this to the dyno..and not seeing peak boost until 5000rpm (11.9psi).
The PO gave me gave me the car with autothority chips installed in the car and "stock" chips in a box. Now, I don't know for sure if those are stock chips...Even if they aren't...stock boost levels + chips = 5-10 hp max right?
So I figure I've got some internal engine work...but what? cams? head?
The turbo is stock, its a tiny little thing. I have pics of it in the car if anybody wants to see proof.

I'm just wondering whats goin on here...

I can't wait to dyno it after mods

Danno

Hmmm, no pictures....

Try using "/" everywhere on the internet (it's UNIX based) rather than "\" from the PC. When Gates bought the then-obsolete CP/M OS to re-license to IBM, he changed the standardized UNIX "/" to "\" to make it unique. There are actually remnants of "/" paths in MS-DOS.

Anyway, here's the photos:

TORQUE/HP
<img src="http://members.rennlist.com/adrial/dyno1low.jpg"">

torque/air fuel curve

adrial

hmm I could see them fine??

Here's the a/f graph using the different /\

[IMG]http://members.rennlist.com/adrial/dyno3low.jpg[\IMG]

using the / in the oposite direction, I don't see the pics...oh well.

Danno

"[IMG]http://members.rennlist.com/adrial/dyno3low.jpg[\IMG]"

Close! Just forget about using "\" anywhere on the internet. Should look like:

[ IMG ]http://members.rennlist.com/adrial/dyno3low.jpg[ /IMG ]

Which gives:


There must be a smoothing function on this graphing software...

adrial

[quote]Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>"[IMG]http://members.rennlist.com/adrial/dyno3low.jpg[\IMG]"

Close! Just forget about using "\" anywhere on the internet. Should look like:

[ IMG ]http://members.rennlist.com/adrial/dyno3low.jpg[ /IMG ]

There must be a smoothing function on this graphing software...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Uhh..thats what I did in my first post....
Dannoo did you get into the NOS bottles again??

EDIT: Ohhhh I follow you now...I was using the wrong / in the url itself...wow am I stooped or what...

Anyway, I have the stock cycling valve so that partially explains why boost ramp up was so gentle, but even someone with an MBC had a relatively gentle curve. No sharp boost hit @ 3200rpm.

mmmbeer

Are you sure the graph give you the wheel power?
It also said SAE not DIN, there is a large difference in the way it is measured. SAE hp give a higher number than DIN hp.

The way most dynometers work: they measure wheel power then add the drivetrain loss (measured when letting go of the accellerator) to get the flywheel power.

Just my two cents.

Eirik Kvello-Aune
<a href="http://www.diateam.no/porsche" target="_blank">www.diateam.no/porsche</a>

adrial

[quote]Originally posted by mmmbeer:
<strong>Are you sure the graph give you the wheel power?
It also said SAE not DIN, there is a large difference in the way it is measured. SAE hp give a higher number than DIN hp.

The way most dynometers work: they measure wheel power then add the drivetrain loss (measured when letting go of the accellerator) to get the flywheel power.

Just my two cents.

Eirik Kvello-Aune
<a href="http://www.diateam.no/porsche" target="_blank">www.diateam.no/porsche</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm sure it's wheel HP. See where it says "TCF" on the bottom of the chart? If that were like 1.15, then it would be flywheel hp. But it is 1.00 so its wheel hp. They didn't enter a correction factor.

What is the more common version of HP that is used? SAE or DIN? Like what does Porsche quote hp numbers in?

After searching the archives I found this:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=002196" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=002196</a>

The HP that was recorded was uncorrected, the guy running the dyno said so.
So, based on that thread SAE and DIN hp are within 2% of eachother?? SAE is US and DIN is euro. So SAE is the more used from my perspective (being in the US).


thanks,
Adrial

Dave

Adrial, He may have a point, IIRC DIN and SAE use entirely diferent mathematics to arrive at their respective numbers, I have seen engines that had as much as 20% difference between DIN and SAE. DIN is european as you mentioned and is used by Porsche. DeMan's shop is all of 30 to 40 feet above sea level, it was 70 degrees out and I doubt the barometric pressure was especially high or low, corrected HP wouldn't be a big difference.

mmmbeer

Porsche use DIN.

I do not know about SAE, but DIN should be measured at 20 degrees celsius and an atmospheric pressure of 1.013. If these values are incorrect when measuring, the HP will have to be corrected.

Lower temp and/or higher pressure means that hp must be corrected down.

Eirik Kvello-Aune
<a href="http://www.diateam.no/porsche" target="_blank">www.diateam.no/porsche</a>

adrial

[quote]Originally posted by Dave:
<strong>Adrial, He may have a point, IIRC DIN and SAE use entirely diferent mathematics to arrive at their respective numbers, I have seen engines that had as much as 20% difference between DIN and SAE. DIN is european as you mentioned and is used by Porsche. DeMan's shop is all of 30 to 40 feet above sea level, it was 70 degrees out and I doubt the barometric pressure was especially high or low, corrected HP wouldn't be a big difference.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Quote from the thread I posted a link to, "Horsepower is a measurement of the engine's ability to perform work. One SAE hp is the ability to lift 33,000 lbs one foot in one minute. One DIN hp (DIN stands for “Deutsche Industrie Normen” or “German Industrial Standard”) is the ability to lift 450000 kg one cm in one minute. For the same power the SAE measurement is thus 98.629% of the metric DIN measurement. "

Compared to back in the day muscle car DIN it may be 20% as you mentioned in the old thread, but today's DIN is apparently not that far off from SAE...

Also, this would mean that everybody elses hp was way off...like Bill's...and his came in exactly where it belonged. This would also lower Damian's hp further.. *ducks*

So...I think the HP measurments are OK unless my understanding of DIN vs. SAE right now is totally wrong.

Check Farzaan's results here:
<a href="http://www.novustelecom.net/~fkassam/dyno/dyno.html" target="_blank">http://www.novustelecom.net/~fkassam/dyno/dyno.html</a>

Granted, they dont have the cycling valve..but even Tony's car running an MBC didn't have a curve that looked like that...Why did the type of dyno that we used (described in 1st post of thread) not produce boost until such high RPM's??

Damian in NJ

I'm not going to get too worried until I speak with Rick DeMan this week. I think some of the numbers he inputted may have been incorrect for the 968. The torque peak should come around 4100 on my car, and it's between 4600 and 5000 on my readout. If that's so far off I'm not sure I can trust the other data.

951porsche

Hey guys,
I run a Dynapack dyno out in Colorado. The dyno's raw torque #s are calculated from the hubs, and those #'s are run though the SAE correction factor to show SAE corrected HP. This takes into account baro. press, temp, humidity. Dynapack dyno's don't correct for torque as there is not an SAE correction factor for torque, as I was told by Dynapack. Important things you guys should know is the TC (correction factor), and how they did the calibration for hub to rpm. It would also help if someone could get the dynapack files for all your dyno runs, that will have a text file with all data captured during the run. I somewhat doubt the curves would like the same as what porsche has released as that was done on an engine dyno and not a chassis dyno. Chassis Dyno values vary enough between dyno types, let alone comparing engine vs chassis plots. The dynapack is a great tuning dyno as it is load based and not a inertial dyno. Anyhow, if you get the .pts files from Rick I can tell you guys a bit more about your pulls. If you have other specific questions, let me know...

Pete

Dave

[quote]Originally posted by mmmbeer:
<strong>Porsche use DIN.

I do not know about SAE, but DIN should be measured at 20 degrees celsius and an atmospheric pressure of 1.013. If these values are incorrect when measuring, the HP will have to be corrected.

Lower temp and/or higher pressure means that hp must be corrected down.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

70 deg F yesterday, roughly 21-22 C, don't have yesterdays pressure but my point is, I don't think the correction would have changed it much.

Tabor

Danno,

COMPLETELY unrelated to dynos, but Microsoft did not actually buy CP/M. They bought a "copy" of CP/M that someone had written. This is one on the reasons that DOS was so bad in early versions. It was quite literaly writen by "some guy".

richard glickel

Dave,

Did you get a read out, or were you a clutch/slip guy like me?

Richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />