Okay, so the owner of the 944 is over at my party last night. Says he has no need for the car (has been sitting in his father's garage for a few years), and is thinking in the $10K range. Seems high to me, but I'm not too deep into the research here yet.

It is a 87 of 88(?) 944 N/A with 41.7K miles, very clean. Has two admitted problems: leaking sunroof and battery drain-down.

I'm going to do some price research later today, but I thought I might pulse you folks first.

Ballpark, what is the going price for such a car?

Thanks in advance

 

[quote]Originally posted by Easy Rhino:
<strong>Okay, so the owner of the 944 is over at my party last night. Says he has no need for the car (has been sitting in his father's garage for a few years), and is thinking in the $10K range. Seems high to me, but I'm not too deep into the research here yet.

It is a 87 of 88(?) 944 N/A with 41.7K miles, very clean. Has two admitted problems: leaking sunroof and battery drain-down.

I'm going to do some price research later today, but I thought I might pulse you folks first.

Ballpark, what is the going price for such a car?

Thanks in advance</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh boy. Here we go. Get ready for a LOT of varying responses here. They will vary acrossed the board from the "I'll NEVER pay that much for an n/a" crowd all the way up to the "Sounds good for a good example that isn't going to nickel and dime you to death" crowd. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

My personal opinion is that it is a bit much. Provided it has a good PPI and the car has been well-maintained, then $7K sounds more reasonable. $7k should get you a very nice, sound, non-turbo car. At $10K, you could get a "decent" turbo.


Tifo

 

10k would net you a damn good turbo I'd think

10k for an N/A is really high though. Yes it may have low mileage but there are certain things on the car that are still extremely old and going to need replacing. If he had replaced every gasket and seal in the engine, water pump, timing belt, clutch, and it has been well maintained for those 41 k then it *might* be worth 6-7k, but for that amount of money I would rather get a turbo and overhaul the engine. That may just be me though.

I would try to talk him down, and find out when everything's been replaced, etc. Get a PPI too.

 

I repeat what I said in the earlier post.

In June of '01 my brother bought a 1984 944 NA with 34k miles for 7500. Car had near new tires (expensive Michelin Pilot XGTs) belts within a few years etc. The car was in concours condition. Dave can attest to that.

My brother bought it at a premium because of the low miles. He drives over 30k a year for work, and it is cheaper to pay a premium for a used 944 than drive a boring camry.

Now for the other part. I have an 89 S2 for sale. Im not trying to sell you my car, just put $$$ in perspective. I am asking 13.8. my car has 71.4k. My car has 210 hp vs 150/160, ABS, 2 airbags, big brembo brakes, etc. If you paid 10k for the NA you would have 4k into the car just to get that stuff that came standard in my car. I also have 17" boxster rims and $950 worth of rubber with 1,500 miles on it, and the 16" rims which are worth about $400 on ebay. I wont go into the shocks (750) belts, clutch etc.

How much is 30k miles worth?
Using my brothers purchase as a baseline, I say 7500 for his 84 is like 7500 for an 85 today. Yours has 7k more miles which is worth say 700, thats 6800, add 700 for each model year, and you have 8500-9000.

Now look at my car again.

Love these circular arguments, dont you?

I dance with numbers all day. this board is/was my escape.

Ragards
Tom R, CPA, Accredited in Business Valuation, Values businesses all day, Esq.

 

I agree, low mileage is great, but if you pay that much now for an N/A you are going to be kicking yourself later for not getting a turbo. Plus, mileage can be changed...you never know. It's not worth paying that much based on just the fact that it has low mileage, because you don't know that it does for sure. When I was shopping for a 944 I came across one that was in absolutely terrible condition. The interior was one of the rattiest I've ever seen in any car, the paint was bad, there was rust all over, and the car wouldn't start. (He was asking 6,000) It was an early 85 and the owner claimed only 63,000 miles. Yeah right. In fact, I almost hoped it was odometer fraud and the car had more like 150k on it, because any owner who can let their car turn to such **** in 63k treated the car terribly.

 

Yes, it sounds high to me as well. a na 944 is still a very good car but it depends on what you want out of the car. A car that has sit for so long might be in worse shape then one thats been driven.
I always say, test drive as many models as you can and thenm you can get a good idea of what value is to you.
Good luck!
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

 

<a href="http://www.cpivalueguide.com" target="_blank">www.cpivalueguide.com</a> values an 87 in excellent condiiditon at $7250. Then again, they put my brothers in at $6650 3-6 months after he bought his for 7500. I paid a couple hundred over the "excellent" value when I bought my S2 in '00.

back to 8000-8500, and the circular agrument.

 

I understand why you are enticed...the mileage and it has been sitting untouched("un screwed up" by others?).

I paid $5500 for my '87 na in April of 2001 with 59,100 miles. The car had not been driven for 6 plus years. Original owners (a family member) but they had sketchy records at best and are the type to "fix-it-when-it-breaks" only.

I then spent too much ($2200 because I didn't know any better) on all new hoses, belts, filters, fluids, timing belt, water pump, thermostat, battery, tuneup, some leaking fuel hoses, plugs, seals, etc. Remember, this was a very clean, almost mint appearing, low mileage car. And this was before I later put new motor mounts, tires, new AC, PS reservoir, etc.

My car is VERY clean, though not pristine and easily the nicest 944 I've ever seen on the road unless I run into you guys on this board at a gathering. My point? You will almost certainly put $2500 into this car in short order, maybe much more. Pay less or buy a 951 or an S2, depending on your taste. I love my little na, they're wonderful cars but they're "sporty" cars, not "sports cars" as the 951's are. Most will agree I believe. It's the diff between 911's and 912's. Both excellent cars...different purposes.

 

I also think that - even though we're assuming its an outstanding example - $10K is a little high. Again, not a plug, but just for $$$ perspective, I think Im going to sell my car in the near future, and I'd be happy with an offer not much more than that - granted the car has more milage, but its about as close to perfect as you can get for the age. I wouldnt pay more than $7K for the car.

 

$10K is way too high. Actually I wouldn't pay more than $7k either.

And the lure of low mileage is BS. As someone else already said mileage can be changed or perhaps the odo hasn't worked for a long time. Also, even if it does have low mileage, this doesn't mean you can put off regular maintenance items. Rubber belts, seal, tires and such fail from age not just use. Besides that, it's time for the belts and such to be changed anyway.

And a car that is 13 years old and has only 42k miles on it may have just sat around "neglected" for all you know. Do you have a full service history on the car? Even with the car just sitting, has he kept clean oil and other fluids in it to keep it from eating itself?

I don't mean to be harsh, but accurate full service history is way more important than low mileage.

 

The help from you folks in the know is invaluable, thanks!

FWIW, the data on the car is absolutely 100% trustworthy. He is a long term good friend, a friend of the family, the son of my pastor, etc. etc. So the good news is that he will provide accurate information, I just haven't figured out all the good questions yet.

What I have yet to figure out is the value, but I get the idea that performance of specific maintenance is critical, and that age may be more important than mileage.

What would you "deduct" for the car not having had its belts/tensioners replaced yet?

 

[quote]Originally posted by Easy Rhino:
<strong>

What would you "deduct" for the car not having had its belts/tensioners replaced yet?</strong><hr></blockquote>

First off, don't even start it up if that is the case.

Second, I would use that as part of the basis of getting the price reduced to a more managable amount. To apply some of TomR's (correct) logic, you would need to address that issue, along with the clutch (probably the original rubber center is ready to die), all seals, etc. Be prepared to spend another $2500 or so on it to get it up to snuff.

With that being said, I would talk him down a lot from the 10K asking price. This is all provided that a PPI doesn't reveal something disasterous.

Tifo

 

Frankly, what the car is worth is what the buyer will pay, and what the seller will take. Period.

But... (ah, there's always a butt somewhere in there, ain't there?)... the value of these cars varies wildly with geography, fronm what I've seen.

Two things: a) look for some 944's advertised in _your_ area to see what kind of asking prices they've got on 'em. See what similar cars $10K will or won't buy.

b) (cue rant mode) hammer the seller over the head with the honest fact that _all_ the rubber on the car (timing belt to brake hoses to hatch seals) is really old & suspect, despite the low miles. If you buy the parts and DIY it, it's still gonna be costy; if you have to pay for the labor too, there's easily $3K of potential expenses lurking here. There's also likely to be corrosion in electrical connectors due to age.
(rant mode off)

IMHO, older, low-miles cars are generally overvalued... but if I had one to sell, I'd be asking an arm & a leg, too.

Jim, gone to take 'Doppler' for a run...

 

To me 10K is too high... Unless you REALLY want a low mileage concour type car. From your posts it looks like you want a "Nice Driver" for yourself/son.

Nothing wrong here, just that 10K is too much.

My father has an 84 944 with 70K on it. It is a show car with about 10 concour first place results, and 1 people choice award. Great car cleaner than 99% of the cars out there. Even this car is not worth more than about $6k. Of course for $6k it is not worth selling and since getting a car into this condition, still being original, is so tough we bascily let it sit and just drive to occasionally.

Point is that even that car is not worth much in the market. It is worth more to US. Same for this car you are looking at. Even if it is 100% mechanically solid 10K is just too much. $7-8k is about all it really worth. If the seller does not agree to this then just tell him NO and to let you know if he changes his mind. Then go out and look for another one. A beater can be had for $3k and very nice driver for $6k.

Don't worry at $10k the car is not going anywhere for a while.

 

Eeek! $10k is ALOT for a 87-88 n/a. I paid $8k for my '89 944S2! But it has lots and lots of miles...

Others may agree or disagree, but IMO, the Excellence magazine price values for a 944 are better than most price guides. Bruce Anderson (writer of the column) is a Porsche enthusiast, and he has an updated database of Porsche car values based on recent Porsche sales. That said, here are the values he gave for a '87 944 in the April, 2002 issue of Excellence:
Poor: $4418.00
Good: $5024.00
Excellent: 6725.00
For an '88, the values are:
Poor: $4763.00
Good: $5416.00
Excellent: $7250.00

I don't care if your friend is a Pastor's kid (I'm a PK myself! ) His price is WAY high!

A low mileage car is great, but only if it has been maintained (ie: belts replaced at regular intervals, all fluids changed every few months, stored properly...etc.). Unless carefully packed away, cars to not store well. A car that's just been parked (or rarely driven) ages worse than a car that is regularly driven.

BTW: I have a "944 Buyer's Checklist" (MS-Word document) that I used when buying my 944S2 that's loosely based on an article in Excellence about buying a used 944. If you're interested in it, let me know (email: z-man@pelicanbbs.com) and I'll send a copy over to ya.

Regards,
-Z-man, the guy to first caught on to your scheme of buying this 944 for your son! hehehe...