turbite-Wait i missed it where did JJmson say fabricating a police report and being extremely rude was OK and acceptable....He never did.

Welcome to BRooklyn N and S....#3 in the nation leading homicides..and the #1 house leading in homicides in NYC...no games out here like he said you try to walk in and out with the same number of holes...

 

Marc,

I was just trying to find a way to compliment you on your two beautiful driving machines!

Tom

 

Tom,

Well than: Thank you sir!
Somtimes good wit is lost in email.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by jjmson20:
<strong>First off to all you people who think you say these witty remarks to cops to there face are full of crap. Maybe these small town hick cops dont have the gall to take action , but i promise you if anyone mouths off in the city they pay.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I wanted to second Turbite's comment, and continue on this path. I don't know jjmson, but the quote above is pretty scary.

So, what he's saying is that if what I say to a cop is interpreted as witty, or smart-a$$ed, I'll pay.

Here's a quick reality check for you: Police officers are intended to "serve and protect", not pass judgement on those that they are supposed to be performing these duties for. Like any other service industry, whether it be McDonalds or computer consulting, service with a smile is to be expected. Service with nice undertones of potential physical harm is not. If a customer tells me to f-off, I've got to deal with it, I don't have the option of making them "pay". The guy behind the register at McDonalds doesn't have this option, either.

No offense, jjmson20, but if your idea of doing your job is to make people pay for voicing their opinion, then it's time to start searching for something new.

-Jon
'88 951 - the really important topic of discussion

 

"I believe police should not enforce speed limits by setting up radar traps. Such practice is pure entrapment"

Please look up "entrapment" next time. A radar trap is not entrapment. Entrapment involves law enforcement enticing an individual into committing a crime which he would not otherwise commit and then arresting the person for that crime. In order for a speed trap to be entrapment, there would have to be an officer in your car with you telling you that it was OK to speed. Speed traps are sting operations to be sure, but they are clearly _not_ entrapment.

You're right about it simply being a money-maker though. I'm right with you on it not being about safety.

As far as the officer in question in concerned though, the guy was probably having a bad night. It's not as though he has control over his uniform color, and he's stuck with what equipment he has from the department. Small police departments are often under-equipped, and it's also possible that he got stuck filling in for another officer and he didn't have all the proper equipment in his cruiser. Not only that, but speed limits, even posted ones, are only for clear conditions during daylight. While there are no "night-time" limits posted in most areas, motorists are expected to adjust their speed down from the posted limits when conditions dictate it. If I remember correctly, it is possible to get a speeding ticket in Ohio even when you're driving at or below the speed limit if the officer decides that your speed is excessive for the traffic and weather conditions.

Also, your comparison to them having a gun and being expected to make life-or-death decisions is rather absurd. Just because an officer can vent a little steam in a situation that clearly has absolutely nothing to do with a gun or with a life-or-death situation. All the officer did was mouth off a little. It's not as though he was fingering his side-arm or even drawing his side-arm.

Aaron

 

"Like any other service industry, whether it be McDonalds or computer consulting, service with a smile is to be expected. Service with nice undertones of potential physical harm is not. If a customer tells me to f-off, I've got to deal with it, I don't have the option of making them "pay". The guy behind the register at McDonalds doesn't have this option, either."

If someone tells a police officer to "F-off", then as far as I'm concerned that comment constitutes probable cause.

News Flash: The "Serve and Protect" does not mean you personally. Police serve and protect the community, not the individual members of that community. When police are not given respect by the members of a community, their ability to effectively act as the enforcers of the community's standards (as dictated by the community's legal codes) is reduced.

In what limited experience I have had, I have _always_ found that when police are portrayed as having been rude and overbearing, the person telling the story is either leaving something out, cannot see the entire picture, or simply did not perceive things in the same manner as the officer. There are more sides than two to every story.

I have been stopped three times in my five years of driving, all by police in rural areas and in every case the officer has been very polite and cordial, even the time I received a ticket. I was never once talked down to and in all cases I was able to politely shake the officer's hand at the end of the stop.

Aaron

 

Fine, some of you guys hate cops, its understandable in this day and age where responsiblitiy is almost looked down upon in MTV punk circles. Sure you guys go ahead and fight the establishment and its utter oppressiveness,
as for me I obey the laws of the land when I can,
when I can't and get caught, I pull up my britches and take my punishment like a man. Oh and I kinda figured out that calling a cop an ******* will not win me any awards, so I pretty much don't do it. Oh and by the way, Turbite, loved the "super right wing ****" hate speech comment, keep fighting the power man.
Picstr

 

Aaron,

My comment about life and death decisions was not specific to my experience on Saturday. I have been threatened by police officers in Savannah for looking like a punk when I was in art school down there. Once I was told that they were going to take me over to South Caroline (right across the river) so they could kick my ****** ***. What had I done? Nothing. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and Johnny Law was in a pissy mood. And they did in fact finger there guns in that instance. In fact they fingered them right into the small of my back. And that was only the first time a Savannah cop stuck a gun in my back. Granted, Savannah at the time had one of the highest per capita murder rates in the country...

I've been told to "mind your own f**king business" for merely asking if everything was OK when there was a disturbance outside my apartment in Atlanta. And in that instance the officers didn't appear to be in any duress as quite frankly they were *** grabbin and carrying on. Oh yeah, they were backup to another couple of officers who were arresting a rape suspect two buildings down. Nice backup there, huh?

Or how about the friend of mine who was arrested in Providence RI for stopping to look at a parking meter that had been smashed open and had been lying and the ground for the past two days in front of the police station. Not only was he NOT the one who smashed it open, he hadn't even touched it. I'm also pretty sure he wasn't to thrilled with the cavity search he got during processing (I am not making that up). The next day he was let go since the only "evidence" the arresting officer had was the 12 cents my friend had in his pocket at the time.

Yes, it is a tough job, but they have to leave their personal fugums at the door when they put on that badge and pick up that gun.

And yes, you are right about the vehicle code that states you can be stopped even if you are traveling the speed limit depending on weather and traffic conditions. That in fact was one of the only traffic tickets I have ever received (1989).

 

It just pisses me off that you can always tell when it's quota time and you see 12 cars in a row pulled over in 2 miles. Like people drive any worse during quota time?

 

Hmmm, When I read thread titles complaining about police I usually ignore them, usually someone venting because they got a ticket for doing something stupid. I am glad jjmson20 replied because I think he has already said everything I would like to say, I haven't worked traffic in years, but for those of you who don't like radar, I say it works where needed, What is the first thing you do when you see radar or in a known radar area, hit the brakes and slow down, I used it take a lot of flack from public giving out tickets, but it was a lot easier than the time I had to go looking in the bushes for a girls leg that was severed by a speeding car that hit her. Most of the places I would work radar were areas that the local community would request radar used. Believe me we would get a lot more people come to the front desk requesting radar be used in a certain area, than we did about people getting a ticket. I agree that radar in long open double lane highway is a little ridiculous, and there aren't many cop I know that enjoy running radar there, but if we don't, usually the politicians (remember them, the people you voted for) would be banging on the door wondering why we are not out there for their citizens to see. Now I don't know if I'm coming off sounding like grumpy old cop I've been reading about, I hope not, I enjoy my toys too,, I drive a 944S and ride a Hurricane 1000 I like to push it a bit too, I just dont do it in stupid areas, As far as cops with attitude, I, and all the cops I know treat people with the same attitude we are presented with. If someone is friendly and polite with me, I treat them the same. If someone want to get in my face with attitude, well....

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by fty:
<strong>turbite-Wait i missed it where did JJmson say fabricating a police report and being extremely rude was OK and acceptable....He never did.

Welcome to BRooklyn N and S....#3 in the nation leading homicides..and the #1 house leading in homicides in NYC...no games out here like he said you try to walk in and out with the same number of holes...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">"but i promise you if anyone mouths off in the city they pay."

How would you make someone pay?
By fabricating a police report.
He even states it so matter of factly, that it is clear that its standard operating procedure.
He *has* to fabricate something, because he can't just state "I took the defendant to jail because he mouthed off."

He further commits the fatal flaw of incorrectly stereotyping us as all "white collar" which is in fact completely unknown. (Given this is a 944 board its probably not true.) Policemen are known to do this because their job requires deducing information to make decisions, but again, thats no excuse. Unfortunately they seem to forget when they fill in the blanks with fact or guess.

There's no question. Police have very tough jobs, but thats no excuse to behave as stated.

And for the record, it is legal to give a police officer the bird, but I don't know about verbal slurs, anyone know?

 

ZV,
If that constitutes "probably cause" in your mind, I'd hate to hear your definition of "beyond a reasonable doubt." I posed the "F-off" examples to provide a comparison. My two examples were intended to demonstrate what can occur when a person is working.

This is an interesting read:
<a href="http://www.ci.boulder.co.us/police/directory/job_officer_description.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ci.boulder.co.us/police/directory/job_officer_description.htm</a>

This job description for a police officer lists requirements, including:
"Maintain composure and perform effectively in stressful situations.
Exercise good judgment. "

Under Experience, it also cites "Interviewing, public speaking, and conflict resolution skills."

In the situation that started this thread, an officer acted in a very unprofessional manner that caused a helpful citizen to lose respect for that officer, and associate his behavior with other members of his profession. The way that the officer handles the "F-off" scenario has similar consequences. Maybe it does constitute probable cause, and maybe the officer should search the miscreant, but how he acts, and whether or not he takes the comment personally has a major effect on how people view him, and other members of his profession.

I respect those who act professionally. I have no respect for those who use their position of authority to intimidate people, or are incapable of accepting constructive criticism.

I have had no issues, personally, with a police officer's behavior in the past 5 years. I've been pulled over 3-4 times in that time frame, and found those officers to be professional and courteous.

Regarding the news flash, an officer should be held accountable for the protection of individuals within the community. When an individual is raped, mugged, or otherwise threatened, an officer should feel obligated to find the person responsible. However, in finding the responsible party, the officer must not violate the rights of the people suspected of committing the crime. It's a thin line to tread on, and I have the utmost respect for those who do it. In serving and protecting the individuals of a community, an officer protects and serves his community. This is decidedly different than the concept of serving as a body-guard or servant for an individual.

-Jon

 

"In what limited experience I have had, I have _always_ found that when police are portrayed as having been rude and overbearing, the person telling the story is either leaving something out, cannot see the entire picture"

So what you are saying is that Police officers are perfect, but no-one else is. Never once has a cop honestly been an *******?

While I will admit to you often that the otherside is talking crap, and most of the people they are involved with do come up with whoppers, that they honestly believe.

However, in the few run ins I've had with cops I am always 100% respectful, for simple convinence sakes, most of the time it works in my favor. And there were a few instances where the cop had every right to be pissed at me (recently I cut off a cop on the highway, I honestly didn't see him) and I was nothing but apologetic. But I have also been harrased for no other reason than I was standing there, and been profiled other times. I have also seen cops harrass people for no reason, and I have also seen them have to physically defend themselves.

But here is the deal guys. Yeah there are those times that a normally benign situation can go crazy, you can never predict them and they can be very dangerous, life threatning even. It means you need to be aware. But remember, you (as a cop) signed up for this you have to take the good with the bad, you are paid (not enough) to put your life on the line. Unless someone gives you a reason you should not get defensive or aggresive.

I too was paid even less for a similar situation. it wasn't just a possibility that someone was going to be shooting at me, but a given. Youse pays your money, youse takes your chances man.

As to the stopping to let the cop know he wasn't very visible. Nope,I would never tell him, you just never know what kind of mood he's in, and worse case you could be spending that night in jail. Like I said, you pay your money you takes your chances. They may not all be a-holes, but just like lawyers 95% of them are giving the rest of them a bad name. If the guy gets creamed by a semi that can't see him, it's not my fault.

Normally I would do anything for him or anyone else. But I've been burned enough times to know better now.

 

Alright guys, my previous post was a joke. One of my friends told me it so I passed it off to you guys. Do you really think I would say that to a cop? Anyway, I have many friends who are policemen, they're Essex county Sherriffs and detectives. I know how hard they work in the streets of Newark and the like. But on the other hand there are alot of policemen in these small towns that do bust your ***** and think they have some type of power trip. Sal

 

I'll toss this out for consideration...Policeman are people...Yup, just like you...They have good days, bad days and problems like everyone else...

Think of your own occupation...Have you ever been curt or abrupt with people?

Now think of a society with no law enforcement...Nobody you could call at 3:00 in the morning 'cause you hear some "stuff" outside...

Police officers aren't perfect and I think that is part of what makes them effective...They're people...

Something to think about rather than complaining.