Micah

All,

I apologize for the length of this one. I know that I can get good, solid advice from all of you. Here goes.
Matt Ritenour is a roomate of mine, and a fellow pilot trainee in the USAF. We live in Bloomington, IN. About two months ago, Matt managed to locate a concours condition 944S in Omaha, Nebraska. He was in contact with the owner for those two months, and the two haggled over price. Matt did everything correctly. The car had all receipts, including: New Clutch, belts, pump, oil changes, etc. Finally, Matt decided he was going to purchase the vehicle. I advised him of getting a PPI, and he contacted the seller, who in turn told him he would take it to his mech. I told Matt to inform the seller that the car needed to be taken to an authorized Porsche dealership. The seller complied, and the car passed with flying colors.
In lieu of renting a plane and flying out, Matt and I caught an Amtrak out of IN, and made it to Omaha at 11pm Monday night. We stayed at a hotel in Omaha, and the seller picked us up at 9am Tuesday. Matt purchased the car at 10:30am. This is probably the finest example I have ever seen of a 944S.
So, everything was perfect. We hop on I-80 in Omaha, and jet back east. I drove first, until just outside Des Moines, then we switched, and Matt had her until about mid-Illinois. Back in the seat, I piloted her across the state border on IL 17, and we were going along nicely, until I crested a hill on a deserted county road in Indiana.
Everything quit. I mean, everything. The lights cut off, the entire car suffered a massive failure. Instantaneously, the power kicked back on, and I was staring at a Christmas tree on the instrument cluster. It was 8pm, Tuesday evening. We coasted down the hill, and I got her off to the side, flashers on, hood popped. Thank god we were on a county road and not still on the I-80, outside Chicago. Likewise, thank god we were only an hour from Matt's house.
I didn’t see any electrical problems. At first we suspected a sudden loss of oil, but discounted that - the oil was synthetic, and brand new, so not very visible until wiped. We walked around back front after a few minutes, and gave one more crank on the car. I stood there, in the winter air, and heard the most dreaded sound possible... a sewing machine coming from the engine compartment.
I was the one to inform Matt that his flawless, new, $6800 944S had most likely suffered a belt failure and bent valves before he could even get the thing in his driveway.
We had the vehicle towed to a Chevrolet dealership in Plymouth where Matt has several friends. I made it back to Muncie at 4am, and just spoke to Matt a few minutes ago. The dealership confirmed that there had been no loss of oil, and that the electronics appeared fine. They could not do a compression check, but the mech advised Matt that he would bet $$$ on a slipped belt.

Now, if you managed to read all of that, here is where it gets wild. Matt has a factory-tech, dealership signed receipt certifying that the belts were new, and properly tensioned. That’s right. The tension was spot on, according to this signed, Porsche form. The belt is approximately 7k old. The previous owner cannot remember if he had the belt tensioned at the correct interval; however, the factory checklist included a tension check, and it was listed as meeting all Porsche standards. The mech even wrote the belt “looked new.” This PPI was accomplished a week and less than 100 miles ago (at the time Matt purchased the car.) At the time the incident occurred, we had traveled approximately 550 miles.

The PO has been cooperative at this point. He advised Matt last night that he felt badly about the incident, and would pay for anything small... anything major, “we’ll talk.” I’ve placed Matt into contact with Bob Farmer, a man in Indianapolis who is currently doing belt and roller work on my 85.5. Mr Farmer is the best Porsche guy I've ever met in person. Likewise, Matt is in contact with Porsche Cars North America to discuss his so-called PPI.

If you managed to read through all of this, thank you. Any advice from anyone who has dealt with Porsche itself on matters like this before would be greatly appreciated. Matt was excited about joining rennlist on the way home.

I can't help thinking this entire event has been a matter of fate for Matt. Wild.

Micah

PS
Another wild aspect... there was a train track about 300 feet from the intersection where we had the failure. While waiting for a tow, one train went by... the same Amtrack we had taken to Omaha the day before...

Micah

I wanted to give a quick update that occured while I was writing the original post. PCNA told Matt they could not do anything about the issue, and forwarded him to the actual Porsche dealership in Omaha.
Upon hearing the symptoms over the phone, Mr. Farmer told Matt, instantly "your valves are bent." He told Matt he would take care of it for $1800. That's right - $1800 for everything. This guy is amazing.
Anyway, Matt is duking it out with the dealership as we speak... thus far, they haven't returned his calls.

...Keeping fingers crossed.

Micah

Jeff928S4

That is so scary!!!!

Did the mech check all the rollers and waterpump, etc?

What could cause a newer belt like that to go??? Were they the right belts? Were they bad after-market belts?

944S Boyeee

Perry 951

Obviously, he needs to get the car fixed first. Make sure every shred of paperwork is accounted for, copies made, and documentation on any "deals" or conversations.

I would go after the Dealer that did the PPI. See what you can drum up by speaking with a Lawyer. I am not sure if the PO could be held accountable, since it was most likely sold AS IS with out Warantee. However, since the Dealer noted on an Official PPI that the belts looked new, and the tesion checked, they may have some liability.

Good luck! Let us know how it works out.

Micah

Thanks thus far, a quick note - Matt is not looking for liability from the PO, although he does appear (the PO that is) to be a good individual, offering to help Matt out with repairs and such.
I told Matt about talking to a lawyer last night. I'm going to contact the dealership in Omaha as well.

If a Porsche signed PPI doesn't make the car safe to purchase, then my faith in Porsche itself has been forever shaken.

Micah

Florida951

Ok one month ago, my brother on his way home suffered a belt failure on his 944S, after towing the car home we turn the key as i looked at the belt the crankshaft moved and the belt didnt, the belt infact still had tention but had lost many of its teeth at the crankshaft puley and was no longer turning, The dreaded sound of no conpression was heard and the engine obviously did not start. We decided before doing anything to install a new belt and reset the timing, after that we gave it a try and it started. the car still runs flawlesly now having had NO bent valves. I assume we got extremely lucky and that possibly might also be your case. Hope things work out for your friend, best of luck.

Matt O.

Micah, sorry to hear about that. Tell you buddy Matt that Matt (the other pilot wannabee) hopes everything works out.

Take care bud!

-Matt

Sami951

Have you checked the cam chain tensioner? A wild guess: if it went south and seized the cams, the belt would probably slip as well. -> on the outside it'd just look like a belt accident.

The guy who did the PPI might have overlooked that one small plastic pad...

I hope it's not as bad as it seems!

Jeff928S4

Yes - check the tensioner.....that would be about the only thing to explain the belt failing, in my opinion.

944S Boyeee

Micah

I'll have Matt let Mr. Farmer know to have a special look at the tensioner... now here's where the legal stuff is going to get nasty.

Matt just called; the dealership told him that they accept no responsibility because the PPI is intended to reflect the condition of the vehicle "at that point in time." Personally, I believe that they dropped the ball.

Matt's going to talk to a lawyer right now. His S will be at Mr. Farmer's shop either tonight or tomorrow morning.

Micah

944S2NUT

OH man that SUX! I had a similar prob, no where near as bad tho. I took off early last year to pickup my first 1990 944S2 downtown, SO EXCITED! anyway I get to the girls house hand her the cash and to my surprise half way home I FORGOT TO RELEASE THE EBRAKE! So despite that I look at my engine light and temp guage it was right at the top. The girl failed to tell me that the thermostat was dead! I pulled over immediately (THANK GOD FOR CELL PHONES) I walted for it to cool down, in that time is where I realized my ebrake was still on! DOH. Once the temp dropped and the EBRAKE were off I headed alittle further out to meet my dad. That is where I towed my pcar to the shop I was so depressed and ANGRY! about $5-$7k later its up to spec. Currently getting a centerforce clutch installed

triscadek

I had a roller seize on my S less than 2 tanks of gas after having everything replaced.

That does suck, sounds like it's gonna get nasty.

Jfrahm

Yes. The belt could have been perfect, but if the $3 tensioner pad wore through the chain will grab, cams will stop and sometimes even break the timing belt. Generally the head cracks when this happens too. Take 10 minutes and pull the cam cover and see what's up in there. Might be a new motor or head is a better way to go.

-Joel.

Tom R.

I dont think the dealer is on the hook.

If you make the argument the dealer is on the hook, then nobody in their right mind will ever do a PPI for fear of the unknown.

For example:
Just because you say you were driving like a sane person doesn't necessarily mean you were, you drove 550 miles before it happened. maybe the belt was defective maybe... unfortunately the forensic cost is more than the repair.

When I bought my S2 I paid top dollar from a delaer. when i did my PPI, we pulled the brake, and tested the clutch. three days later the rubber decided to go. New York has a lemon law, otherwise I would have been S.O.L. I basically reduced my purchase price by about 800 because of the lemon law.

That's part of the reason dealers charge more than private sellers. I spoke to a new car dealer that told me his dealership bought extended warrantees for about $1000 for every car on their used car lot.

the above doesnt mean I dont think what happened sucks!

AlexE

That is such a sad story.
PPI's like I have mentioned on 944's do not mean the paper they are written on. These are expensive cars to fix and most of them are over 15 years old. A PPI may show a wonderfull clutch...that will chunk away in the next month etc,etc..... Unfortunately the dealer will not be in the hook for this. The PPI does not give you a warranty period.
Unfortunately 90% of 944 series owners will spend $2000 grand in servicing/upgrades in the first couple of years. There is no way around that. He is just paying it in the first days of ownership.....
I think someone has mentioned it before. If you are going to buy a 944 don't buy and 'S'. I think I am starting to see why.