DangerIsland

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Manning:
<strong>Danger,

I'm not sure your 100% correct about that. The software itself may not be "certified" but I am pretty sure the developer has to be Mac OS certified to get Apples wink of approval from a marketing standpoint.

The Bad Apple rumors had them pulling the plug on clones because they were losing money on the deal. The Control freaks rumors had them pulling the plug because junk was hitting the streets and making them look bad.

If Apple had become the big player that Microsoft is today they would have been in the same position Billy and the gag is regarding monopolies, etc. But you know, it makes sense. If you want something done right (and you know how) you do it yourself, right.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I worked at Apple, now I work on an OS X product (here at RealNetworks.) Apple doesn't really provide any kind of marketing for 3rd party apps, per se. I can compile a text editor today and release it as JoeWrite v1.0 and Apple will treat it the same way they treat every app out there.... just another app. We get some help from Apple in the form of hardware to borrow, access to seed builds, dev help, etc. But there's nothing Apple offers as a certification of our product. The developer program is getting really good, and I get lots of little benefits from being registered, etc.

The truth behind the common "Macs have no software" line is that yes, PCs have about 10x the titles available. But the fact is, there are very very few things you just plain can't do on the Mac, and of those 10x titles, 80% of them are complete and utter junk. There are some people that abosolutely need a PC, but most people just don't want to consider the Mac, if they looked at it harder, it might work out pretty well for them.

You're right about the clones, losing $, watering down the Mac brand, and losing control over things all contributed to it.

Oh geez, we've hijacked this tread and turned it into an Apple/PC discussion again. Some things never change.

UDPride

I think we agree here more than we disagree. Im all for Macs. Id be on one if I didnt have to rebuy $4000 in software. Thats whats holding me back. If it was just a matter of buying the machine, I'd have been on Macs ages ago. By the time I buy the MAC equivalent of Office, Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Flash, Freehand, Quark, Pagemaker, Fireworks, WRQ, WSFTP, Acrobat, Real, and a litany of other things though, Im pretty much eating bread crumbs. I would probably need a dual processor G4 to run a lot of it anyway which will set me back a bit (though not any more than a Wintel admittedly).

Which is why I may try my luck at a Mac notebook b/c I only use that for general tasks like word processing, internet, email, etc and can get by on a lot less. Should be a good chance to get my feet wet.

Had I started out on the Mac to begin with, it would have been a lot easier, but I, like most people, did not. Its Ironic b/c we all probably got our feet wet on Apples as in the Apple IIE back in elementary school.

Manning

Well any subject like this will head in that direction. It is just like what oil filter should I use, what tires should I buy, blah, blah, blah. All those threads get long and stupid too. It always has to do with personal preference.

Manning

UD,

I don't get why you aren't on a Mac already. Based on everything you use, it looks like the typical quiver of apps that would be on a Mac.

When we bought the building we are in from BF Goodrich, we had to go through the office and document what was staying and going. In our tour we noticed the entire office was on Windows machine, except the marketing department, which was on Macs.

Tremelune

Best place to ask this question is in the forums over at <a href="http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=cfrm&s=50009562" target="_blank">ArsTechnica</a>. It's the Rennlist forum of computers. High class <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Check out the Other Hardware forum for laptop questions...

Manning

from Apple:

"Each version of each product type that uses the Mac Logo must(a) be seperatly authorized to use the Mac Logo using this license and (b) be compatible with Apple's Mac OS X system software version 10.0 or later, and must be able to be verified by Apple as such by operating without error in at least one of the Mac OS X application environments"

I am pretty sure Microsoft has the same type of statement for their logos and such (actually I think they are tougher about use of their logo)

Joe944

Haha yeah it seems this thread has gone a little off track 8) It's all good though, I was mainly looking for info regarding the Hypersonic Aviator but according to the reviews I've been finding around I think I'm going to go with them. I'll check out that forum too, thanks.

SidViscous

Er ah the reason that there is more software for the PC platform is that The PC makes up about 90% of the market. There is more gas produced and sold because Diesel vehicles make up less than ten percent of the market.

as to having Wintel or Apple's good to go logo. The best software out there (for what it does) doesn't have The good computing seal of approval. Code that's functional, stable, tight, small and error free.

As to getting a mac. If your going to type letters or manipulate images than it doesn't matter what you buy honestly. If you want something flexible and easy to write code for you want a pc. If you want to write your own programs pc. You want to buy cheap hardware to upgrade your system pc al the way. Go to any electronics store. All the mac stuff is on one shelf. Makes it easy to find everything I geuss.

The reason why PC stuff is so cheap is because IBM released the technology. The reason why apple stopped licensing there stuff is because they were being priced out of the market. The clone stuff was of less quality? The original Apples had in their manual words to the effect &gt;If your apple doesn't work out of the box. Drop it two feet onto a table.&lt;

And just to really make you mac nutz even crazier. I didn't get to talk to him, but Wozniac was in our office last week, and I did get to help him with something.

944 Hooligan

if you really want to write code get a sun microsystems. two of our programmers write code on a daily basis on macs with no problems. in fact, when we do testing, applications that have been written on pc's work just as good on macs if not better.

intel and all the other chip manufacturers are still waiting for ibm and motorola to release the rights to the power-pc processor. hopefully it will continue to be a very long wait.

SidViscous

If you want to code by Sun's rules make sure you don't document anything. That's the way they do it.

"in fact, when we do testing, applications that have been written on pc's work just as good on macs if not better."

Er how does that work? Unless it's compiled for a pc and compiled for a mac then it's a matter of your programers abilities and has little to do with the quality of the platform Methinks your talking about Java code then. If in Java then "Good" and "better" are realitive terms. In other words slower and slow.

944 Hooligan

no java, we try to avoid it like the plague. at least the designers do.

our programmers write in cold fusion, php, perl.

my programming skills are very limited, but hanging around the programmers and collaborating on projects sheds a little light on the subject. if you are good enough to write code that works well then you are probably good enough to write it for either platform.

the point is, there is no need to shoehorn macs out of the buying equation cause there isn't enough software available. the buyer really as to decide what they will be doing with the machine.

besides, i have a pc along with my macs, i have to have something to rest my feet on while sitting at my desk!

SidViscous

"i have to have something to rest my feet on while sitting at my desk!" Waiting for the mac to boot.

"i have to have something to rest my feet on while sitting at my desk!" Since I'm not getting any work done on my macs.

"i have to have something to rest my feet on while sitting at my desk!" While I try to figure out something to useful to do with my macs.

"i have to have something to rest my feet on while sitting at my desk!" While I curse at my mac for hours on end to concvince it to spit out my fecking floppy.

"i have to have something to rest my feet on while sitting at my desk!" Trying to figure out to do with the error message "please insert disk "Hard drive""

944 Hooligan

my mac boots faster than any pc i have been behind. doesn't need to run through 100s of tests and load thousands of drivers.

i am pretty sure i am billing for some work i am doing right now...web design on my mac.

doing something useful with my mac? yes. defending it against a porsche driving pc user!!

floppy disk? i think pcs are the only platforms still using that ancient media, we dropped that many moons ago. many moons.

what's an error message? i have never had downtime due to hard drive failures.

DangerIsland

Sid: Your sig is particularly funny and ironic after reading your comments about Macs.

944 Hooligan

hahahaha!!

good catch <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />