Ferarri's racing heritage down the drain
05-12-2002, 05:55 PM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Ferarri's racing heritage down the drain
If you haven't watched today's F1 race, you might not want to bother. Barichello led the race throughout, then had to let Michael pass at the last minute, team orders and all that. It was embarrassing for everyone concerned. I know Michael's a pompous *****, but it's hard to believe this was his idea. He even let Rubens stand on the #1 podium.
BTW, my neighbor and I drove my 951 and his Ferrari 328 back to back yesterday. His car may have more curb appeal, but for overall driveability in the city, I'd take my 951 any day. My 951 is so easy to drive, and pulls about as hard as the 328.
BTW, my neighbor and I drove my 951 and his Ferrari 328 back to back yesterday. His car may have more curb appeal, but for overall driveability in the city, I'd take my 951 any day. My 951 is so easy to drive, and pulls about as hard as the 328.
05-12-2002, 06:14 PM
#2
Nordschleife Master
Besides all the quality issues (poor) I would REALLY like a 348tb challenge car 
(much more than a 993 or 996 turbo).
BUT, I would have to have a raw, early 930 too!
(much more than a 993 or 996 turbo). BUT, I would have to have a raw, early 930 too!
05-12-2002, 08:25 PM
#3
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obviously it wasn't michael's idea. it was the ferrari's decision to make barichello second, not first. it comes down to politics and PR. they are investing in the final final.
from formula1.com
..........<snip>.........
Schumacher also recounted what a hollow victory it was for him. ""I take no joy from this victory. I enjoyed the race but not the last hundred metres. It was a team decision. Only at the end I was called on the radio and told Rubens would move over," he said in the same statement.
"I know the decision is not popular, but imagine if we had lost the championship by this number of points at the end of the season. The team would look stupid in that situation. Rubens did a superb job and he outpaced me all weekend. This is a challenging situation having him pushing me. I am sure he will win races this year."
from formula1.com
..........<snip>.........
Schumacher also recounted what a hollow victory it was for him. ""I take no joy from this victory. I enjoyed the race but not the last hundred metres. It was a team decision. Only at the end I was called on the radio and told Rubens would move over," he said in the same statement.
"I know the decision is not popular, but imagine if we had lost the championship by this number of points at the end of the season. The team would look stupid in that situation. Rubens did a superb job and he outpaced me all weekend. This is a challenging situation having him pushing me. I am sure he will win races this year."
05-12-2002, 08:44 PM
#4
Ferarri has done this throughout it's history, why be so surprised now? And we have Michael Waltrip blocking for his boss Dale Jr here in the US. What about Ford with its first LeMans win? Let's not get too bent over this, it's been going on in racing forever. Just now the stakes are much higher, so it even makes more sense now-for the team and sponsors.
And I drove my neighbors new 360 Spyder a couple weeks ago, believe me this was the first time I wanted to kick my 968 when I got home. Didn't feel that way when I drove his C4S . . .
And I drove my neighbors new 360 Spyder a couple weeks ago, believe me this was the first time I wanted to kick my 968 when I got home. Didn't feel that way when I drove his C4S . . .
05-12-2002, 09:31 PM
#5
Race Car
[quote]Originally posted by deni durrell:
Schumacher also recounted what a hollow victory it was for him. "I take no joy from this victory...imagine if we had lost the championship by this number of points at the end of the season. The team would look stupid in that situation. Rubens did a superb job and he outpaced me all weekend. This is a challenging situation having him pushing me. I am sure he will win races this year."<hr></blockquote>
Words like these contribute to making the man great.
On EDIT: Narrowing quote to make my point more clear.
Schumacher also recounted what a hollow victory it was for him. "I take no joy from this victory...imagine if we had lost the championship by this number of points at the end of the season. The team would look stupid in that situation. Rubens did a superb job and he outpaced me all weekend. This is a challenging situation having him pushing me. I am sure he will win races this year."<hr></blockquote>
Words like these contribute to making the man great.
On EDIT: Narrowing quote to make my point more clear.
05-12-2002, 09:42 PM
#7
Race Car
[quote]Originally posted by Peckster:
<strong>Making the man great? What else could he say?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ever heard of a poor winner, darling? We could've been in for a real treat if he'd shown a pompous attitude about the whole deal claiming it's 'his rightful place' or something...
<strong>Making the man great? What else could he say?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ever heard of a poor winner, darling? We could've been in for a real treat if he'd shown a pompous attitude about the whole deal claiming it's 'his rightful place' or something...
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05-12-2002, 10:14 PM
#8
I am a huge Ferrari fan and I like nothing better than to see a Ferrari 1-2, but this race left a bad taste in my mouth. Personally I don't like what Ferrari did. However.....
Ferrari has always been like this. In fact F1 itself has a history of incidents like this. Be it team orders or just taking out your nearest competitor so that he doesn't get any points (see also Senna and Michael S.). Ferrari has always been about Ferrari winning. They do what ever it takes. From many of the comments MS made he was not involved in this decision. Last year he was involved in the decision were Rubens was told to let MS past for second place. As MS said it was a much closer championship than this year. Most of the top teams in F1 have sometype of team orders. The days of Ron Dennis letting Senna and Prost battle and race each other for the championship (when the McLaren chasis/Honda engine were dominating - won every race of the season except one) are over in F1 with the current teams.
Ferrari has always been like this. In fact F1 itself has a history of incidents like this. Be it team orders or just taking out your nearest competitor so that he doesn't get any points (see also Senna and Michael S.). Ferrari has always been about Ferrari winning. They do what ever it takes. From many of the comments MS made he was not involved in this decision. Last year he was involved in the decision were Rubens was told to let MS past for second place. As MS said it was a much closer championship than this year. Most of the top teams in F1 have sometype of team orders. The days of Ron Dennis letting Senna and Prost battle and race each other for the championship (when the McLaren chasis/Honda engine were dominating - won every race of the season except one) are over in F1 with the current teams.
05-12-2002, 10:27 PM
#9
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I don't think anyone's surprised that this type of thing happens with either Shumacher or Ferrari involved. What is surprising is that it happened so early in the season. But then, Rubens just signed for another two years, so he can't complain.
05-12-2002, 10:33 PM
#10
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Given Ferrari's dominance this year, the real fun of FI is guessing who's coming in 2nd or 3rd.
jb <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
jb <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
05-12-2002, 11:33 PM
#11
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It is easy to be gracious when you still win.
What would have made Schumi great is if he refused to take the win at the end, despite team orders. He was up by 21 points BEFORE this race even started, and has been out pointed by his brother and JPM once each in the previous 5 races. By placing second he would still have INCREASED his lead by 23 points instead of 25.
Imagine if Schumi had refused to follow team orders, I doubt Ferrari would drop him from the car. The same cannot be said for Rubens..new contract or not. To not follow this order would have only boosted Schumi's image in the eyes of everyone.
As for losing the championship at the end by 2 points and looking stupid, I don't think so. The team may look stupid for not issuing the order, but he certainly would not by not following it. To take a victory you did not earn does not make you a champion....
Yes, nothing in the future is certain but I don't doubt he will win another championship this year.
My $.02
What would have made Schumi great is if he refused to take the win at the end, despite team orders. He was up by 21 points BEFORE this race even started, and has been out pointed by his brother and JPM once each in the previous 5 races. By placing second he would still have INCREASED his lead by 23 points instead of 25.
Imagine if Schumi had refused to follow team orders, I doubt Ferrari would drop him from the car. The same cannot be said for Rubens..new contract or not. To not follow this order would have only boosted Schumi's image in the eyes of everyone.
As for losing the championship at the end by 2 points and looking stupid, I don't think so. The team may look stupid for not issuing the order, but he certainly would not by not following it. To take a victory you did not earn does not make you a champion....
Yes, nothing in the future is certain but I don't doubt he will win another championship this year.
My $.02
05-13-2002, 12:16 AM
#13
Race Car
[quote]Originally posted by Peckster:
<strong> Rubens just signed for another two years, so he can't complain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Makes you wonder what he was thinking. I have to believe Hakinen's ride was his for the asking, the Ferrari may be a better car, but McLaren doesn't seem to care what order a 1-2 finish comes in.
<strong> Rubens just signed for another two years, so he can't complain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Makes you wonder what he was thinking. I have to believe Hakinen's ride was his for the asking, the Ferrari may be a better car, but McLaren doesn't seem to care what order a 1-2 finish comes in.
05-13-2002, 12:34 AM
#14
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by PorscheG96:
<strong>Words like these contribute to making the man great.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Of for the love of Pete....
What a crock of bull. Great man? Yeah right.
<strong>Words like these contribute to making the man great.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Of for the love of Pete....
What a crock of bull. Great man? Yeah right.
05-13-2002, 12:43 AM
#15
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Riff:
<strong>It is easy to be gracious when you still win.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Boy howdy.
[quote]Originally posted by Riff:
<strong>What would have made Schumi great is if he refused to take the win at the end, despite team orders.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Absolutely. If he were a truly great man that is exactly what he would have done.
[quote]Originally posted by Riff:
<strong>To take a victory you did not earn does not make you a champion....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Couldn't have said it better. This is yet another incident that shows what an jerk MS is. It's really sad becaue it is truly better than this and doesn't/shouldn't need to stoop so low.
A couple of years ago Bernie and/or Max made a big deal of the McLaren boys setting the finish based upon a gentlemen's agreement about who led into the first turn. They basically said there would be hell to pay if it ever happened again in F1. Nothing will happen. What a farce. I used to watch every F1 race live (had to get up early or stay up way late), but now I don't even care to watach anymore. What a joke.
<strong>It is easy to be gracious when you still win.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Boy howdy.
[quote]Originally posted by Riff:
<strong>What would have made Schumi great is if he refused to take the win at the end, despite team orders.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Absolutely. If he were a truly great man that is exactly what he would have done.
[quote]Originally posted by Riff:
<strong>To take a victory you did not earn does not make you a champion....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Couldn't have said it better. This is yet another incident that shows what an jerk MS is. It's really sad becaue it is truly better than this and doesn't/shouldn't need to stoop so low.
A couple of years ago Bernie and/or Max made a big deal of the McLaren boys setting the finish based upon a gentlemen's agreement about who led into the first turn. They basically said there would be hell to pay if it ever happened again in F1. Nothing will happen. What a farce. I used to watch every F1 race live (had to get up early or stay up way late), but now I don't even care to watach anymore. What a joke.