Experts needed - Cylinder #4 Scored!!!!!
05-25-2003, 03:26 AM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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Experts needed - Cylinder #4 Scored!!!!!
After finally removing the head and seeing the broken head gasket, I turned the crank and checked the #1 and #4 cylinders. Turns out there is a score a little less than a quarter of an inch wide that continues all the way to the piston and possibly further. If you run your fingernail across the score, it catches more on one side than the other, and it seems to get fractionally deeper the further into the cylinder it goes. I will post pictures shortly. This is not easy on a nineteen year old's budget!
05-25-2003, 03:37 AM
#4
Three Wheelin'
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It does blow, because I did just buy it and I do not have much more I can put into the car. I will never give up though - love the car wayyyyyy too much.
05-25-2003, 03:45 AM
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What are the chances that a piece of the head gasket lodged between the cyclinder and the sleeve? I would have thought that head gasket material would be softer than the sleeve, so as to prevent scoring -- but after seeing the photos about the way it ruptured.....
05-25-2003, 07:26 PM
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Here is the link to the pictures of my cylinder #4...
<a href="http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/c/w/cwt106/Home/951repair.html" target="_blank">http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/c/w/cwt106/Home/951repair.html</a>
<a href="http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/c/w/cwt106/Home/951repair.html" target="_blank">http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/c/w/cwt106/Home/951repair.html</a>
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05-25-2003, 10:11 PM
#9
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Run the edge of your fingernail across it. If the scrapes catch your nail, you will need to have the bores honed and go with larger rings and pistons. (Some say you can get by with 1 over rings and stock pistions.... YMMV)
If it does not catch the edge of your nail, or not too bad, pull all the pistons and lightly scuff up the bores with Scotchbrite and fresh oil. Hand lap them several times, but make sure you do not work on one area too much. You want to stay perfectly round.
DO NOT USE A STANDARD ENGINE HONE ON THE BLOCK.
Let us know how deep they are.
If it does not catch the edge of your nail, or not too bad, pull all the pistons and lightly scuff up the bores with Scotchbrite and fresh oil. Hand lap them several times, but make sure you do not work on one area too much. You want to stay perfectly round.
DO NOT USE A STANDARD ENGINE HONE ON THE BLOCK.
Let us know how deep they are.
05-26-2003, 12:24 AM
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Perry-
I've been helping "badass" tear this motor down, and the scrape catches the nail, more-so the further you move into the cylinder.
The unique thing about the "gouge": it runs deeper across its width from the front to back of the engine, and gets deeper going top to bottom.
We're here in Central PA, any thoughts as to what machine shop to take it to, cause I honestly don't think that a cylinder hone is going to cut it, at least for the high boost this engine was set to.......
I've been helping "badass" tear this motor down, and the scrape catches the nail, more-so the further you move into the cylinder.
The unique thing about the "gouge": it runs deeper across its width from the front to back of the engine, and gets deeper going top to bottom.
We're here in Central PA, any thoughts as to what machine shop to take it to, cause I honestly don't think that a cylinder hone is going to cut it, at least for the high boost this engine was set to.......
05-26-2003, 12:33 AM
#12
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It's what the factory recommends, so I think badass951's engine will be OK...
It really gets bored slightly, recoated with the magical 944 cylinder wall coating (Alusil compound I believe) and then larger pistons/rings are used...referred to as "first over".
The other option is to bore the engine way too much, then stick some steel sleves in there...
It's what the factory recommends, so I think badass951's engine will be OK...
It really gets bored slightly, recoated with the magical 944 cylinder wall coating (Alusil compound I believe) and then larger pistons/rings are used...referred to as "first over".
The other option is to bore the engine way too much, then stick some steel sleves in there...
05-26-2003, 12:37 AM
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Depends on what part of PA you are in. Dougherty Automotive, 720 East Nields Street, West Chester, PA has been highly reccomended in the past. 610-692-6039 Stay away from Bodymotion in NJ, BTW.
Of course, you can always ship the block to any tuner you wish, just need to crate it up well.
The taper sounds like ring 2 is broken, or the oil control ring has a mushed center section. All you can do is pull the motor, tear it down, and find out. I would start hunting for pistons just in case. (or a new block) 1st over are not easy to find, so you'll want to get started early.
You'll also want to get the bores MIC'd. High boost high mile cars can have thrust bearing problems and oval the bores. Depending on how bad it is, it might need more material removed than just the 1st over pass. You'd be looking at custom pistons in that case.
Of course, you can always ship the block to any tuner you wish, just need to crate it up well.
The taper sounds like ring 2 is broken, or the oil control ring has a mushed center section. All you can do is pull the motor, tear it down, and find out. I would start hunting for pistons just in case. (or a new block) 1st over are not easy to find, so you'll want to get started early.
You'll also want to get the bores MIC'd. High boost high mile cars can have thrust bearing problems and oval the bores. Depending on how bad it is, it might need more material removed than just the 1st over pass. You'd be looking at custom pistons in that case.
05-26-2003, 01:13 AM
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Perry et al.-
I figured it was a cracked ring, too. Funny, I don't even own the car but its come to grow on me. I was crushed when I went over and saw that cylinder like that.
BA and I have been talking to the technician that rebuilt the top end and remapped the ECU approximately 4k(+/-) ago for the prior owner since the very beginning. I'm hoping something could be worked out with him in either finding a new motor or repairing this one, but as you said used, good condition blocks are hard to find.
It's a shame this happened because the block, according to documentation provided, only has 44k on it. The max boost that the car saw was (again, according to specs assuming everything is working correctly) 17psi on 93 Octane. I haven't seen BA in a couple of days to get the rest of the literature off of him.
Dougherty's shop has been positively mentioned by some fellow SCCA members here, too. Some shop in Hershey too, named Gillespie (sp?) was mentioned.
Thanks in advance for the help you and others have provided. More frustrations aired shortly.
PS -- your dyno sheets, where did you get that done at?
I figured it was a cracked ring, too. Funny, I don't even own the car but its come to grow on me. I was crushed when I went over and saw that cylinder like that.
BA and I have been talking to the technician that rebuilt the top end and remapped the ECU approximately 4k(+/-) ago for the prior owner since the very beginning. I'm hoping something could be worked out with him in either finding a new motor or repairing this one, but as you said used, good condition blocks are hard to find.
It's a shame this happened because the block, according to documentation provided, only has 44k on it. The max boost that the car saw was (again, according to specs assuming everything is working correctly) 17psi on 93 Octane. I haven't seen BA in a couple of days to get the rest of the literature off of him.
Dougherty's shop has been positively mentioned by some fellow SCCA members here, too. Some shop in Hershey too, named Gillespie (sp?) was mentioned.
Thanks in advance for the help you and others have provided. More frustrations aired shortly.
PS -- your dyno sheets, where did you get that done at?