dave120

[quote]Originally posted by PorscheG96:
<strong>
Yeah right, compare the torque between those two cars when the engine is kept in the power band and you'll think twice. I did a rolling start with Travis last year before he tricked out his car and despite my being in 4th gear and him being in 3rd [I'm guessing] he destroyed my 968 from a 75 mph rolling start...I might not have lost to him quite as badly had I started in 3rd.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You're probably right, although I don't think your 968 should have lost badly to a stock turbo unless it was a turbo S. I've never raced a turbo in the S2 so I wouldn't know. I'm only speaking from riding and driving stock (or very close to stock) turbos and I don't think they'd pull as hard as you say. But this turbo and S2 debate has been gone over so many times already. Wasn't this thread about an Integra vs an S2?

Having been in an ITR and as quick as they are, I don't think they'd have as much pull up over 100. Below that it would be pretty close though they are pretty fast when wound up to those insane RPMs but I think they lose momentum quicker than the Porsches do at higher speeds.

Douglas_T

Yep, It depends on the drivers and race situation...I'll take the Porsche!

Dave

Doesn't matter, the ITR is still butt ugly at any speed!

Larry Parker

My (S2) and evan moen (type r) spent the day at
waterford hills road course a few years back
we diced it out all day and I would take either car......I pulled a bit on him at times and he was faster in the corners some times......But
now i think i would take the type-r and go in the woods!!!

rihaa

Regardless of which one is faster I will stick with my european cars, especially the S2. Asian cars have absolutely no character to them and even less road feel from all of the ones I have driven. I have a hard time understanding why they make an effort to remove ALL road feel from their cars.

Not to mention that after driving my '89 Volvo 740 for a few years I cannot stand the ridiculously crappy turning radius of the integras (and any other asian car I have driven for that matter). Their turning radius is even worse than most SUV's.

Larry Parker

Well I guess you have not driven a R then
If your S2 has stock dampers your car has no
where near the road feel as the type R............

Keep im mind your S2 cost 45k in 89-91
and the type r cost 20k in 2000...............

Yes the Type R may not have as much "character" But then again i care about RACING and NOT driving around on the street and looking cool!!!

Also my crx can turn around in the middle of a 2 way steet with out touching the curbs.......

Micah

Regardless of which one is faster I will stick with my european cars, especially the S2. Asian cars have absolutely no character to them and even less road feel from all of the ones I have driven. I have a hard time understanding why they make an effort to remove ALL road feel from their cars.

Great statement. I read a copy of the comparison review b/w the 951 and the *new* 300zx TT from '89, and they commented along a similar vein. Being in a GSR is a lot like riding in a Cavalier for me... they both have the same "it's just there" feel.
It's also interesting how the Japanese have a tendency to simply throw technology at a problem. I'm by no means anti-technology - but often with Japanese projects I don't think it's considered as part of a complete package, and this is where designs can fall on their face IMHO.

Micah

Mongo

I have seen this topic at least about 3 times in a year and a half. I believe there was one on Pelican between a 968 and a Type R. Both were stock on stock in a freeway race and the ITR had a gain up until 115 when the 968 pulled away strongly, about 10 car lengths ahead of the ricerocket at 135.

I'm sure an S2 will dust the sh*t outta an ITR after 110 mph. keep in mind those asian cars are fast, but not fast enough to keep up with a car designed to exceed 130 mph and built for the Autobahn and windy roads. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

Robby

The E36M3 barely beating the ITR on the freeway surprises me a little- assuming it was a '96 & up M3 that is- the '95s had less TQ ~350rpm higher. A '96 M3 can outrun a stock Turbo S to the 1/4 & be even up to ~120 or so- maybe even higher, but would eventually be passed by the Turbo S's superior top speed, even if the M3 DIDN'T redline 5th- much more responsive, NA, more disp, shorter gearing, etc...

From what I've seen, the times are: '96 M3: ~14.0, '95 M3: ~14.4, 951: ~14.5, 951S: ~14.2, 968: ~14.4, S2: ~14.8, etc- Also, the 968 had several options that could affect it- Torsen LSD was opt in '93 & up, as were 17" wheels w/255/40/17 rubber- a nice 968 w/all that should be able to run w/a Turbo S right through the 1/4, as the 968 had several advantages- disp, NA, 16v vario-cam, shorter gearing, etc- the weight of the cars- S2, 968, both turbo's- should have been about the same really, except the 968 had better dist- 49/51 vs 51/49. From what I've seen, they all weigh b/t ~3100 & 3200lbs w/full tank, etc- can't speak for ALL of them though- my Turbo S was 3160 w/full tank, spare, etc- the M3's are ~3300 total- the ITR is ~2750 or so- not quite as light as many would say, but then, I always list actual weights as opposed to curb weights- the curb is usually ~150 less, so do the math before flaming please...

The original ITR was ~15.0, but the later ones are a hair under. Tabor has a cousin (I believe) who has a newer ITR and has said it will hit ~155- that's pretty impressive- would beat the S2's top speed, be even w/968 & regular 951... The first test I ever saw of ITR (C&D) showed 15.2 @ 93 & 0-120 @ 32.0- the '96 M3 was 0-130 @ ~28.0. Never seen 0-120 or 130 for 951 or 951S, except for the one in C&D w/shorter FD (3.89 vs 3.38)- 1/4: 13.9 @ 101 & 0-120 @ 22.1- that short gearing REALLY helped too- the Turbo S that Porsche listed it's "manufacturer's data" from was the only one I've EVER heard of that was faster- which also made it the only car (I've ever heard of) that Porsche exxagerated the times of for production estimates- must have been an accident- they must have tested a prototype w/the shorter FD, that was just a little stronger somehow. Anyway, the S2 vs ITR should really be close- more than close enough to depend on the specific car- some cars just come off the assembly line stronger than others AND over the years, some are maintained better- not to mention the dif the driver can make...

I've never driven an ITR, but have driven all the other's I've mentioned here- I've also driven GSR Integras, and I think they feel pretty good, personally- just different than the German feel. I think I'd rather have an S2 than ITR though- DEFINATELY if it was a convertible...

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Z-man

[quote]Originally posted by megatron:
<strong>For anyone who's going to flame me for posting this streetdrag story - it was in a secluded industrial area at ~4AM with no other people in sight for miles around. There were 10 people total there: all chose to be there.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, that must have made it a very, very safe event! Sounds like all the right precautions were taken. Must have been even safer than going to a real racetrack. Yeah, right. No people in sight? Maybe you didn't see anyone because it was DARK outside. (Side note: what about the thrid shift operators who work in industrial areas, or the janitorial staff that work off hours...)

I wasn't going to flame you until you wrote what I quoted above: it's one thing to street race, but it's another to try to justify it!

Look: go ahead and street race: I don't care anymore. BUT: Don't try to justify it as being safe. It's not. Even track driving is dangerous. STOP TRYING TO JUSTIFY STREET RACING AS BEING SAFE: it isn't!
<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

You asked for it, you got it.
-Zoltan.

Z-man

Ok, I'm better now.

RE: ITR vs. 944S2: that's a tough call: I had a '90 Teggy GS, and while it didn't have the VTEC engine, it did have a well tuned suspension.

However, I feel that in the twisties, the 944S2 is probably faster, given it's RWD layout, and fatter tires. (Note: the ITR is one of the best handling FWD cars, IMHO).

On the straights: not sure. given equal driver's, in the 1/4, it's probably the 944S2 by a nose, with the ITR really close, due to the better low end torque of the 944S2.

-Z.

Skwerl

Z-Man, you could probably save yourself alot of time around here if you just added your rants against street racing into your sig.

megatron

I never said it was safe. It's not safe. So be it. All I said is that people who were there on their own accord.

Streetlights lined the streets and surrounding areas. No 3rd shift workers. The lots were abandoned. If we hurt ourselves, then we would have done it to ourselves - nobody else. In any case I don't streetdrag anymore, but please don't try to describe an event you didn't attend as if your "depiction" is more factual than that of those who did.

..And yes, I race on the track and on the airfield autocrosses. I've seen equally, and sometimes more unsafe situations there than at many streetdrags. Organizers do a great job, but only so much can be done in a grassroots type of event.

Z-man

Ok, sorry. Whatever.
-Z.

944S2NUT

[quote]Originally posted by Z-man:
<strong>
Well, that must have made it a very, very safe event! Sounds like all the right precautions were taken. Must have been even safer than going to a real racetrack. Yeah, right. No people in sight? Maybe you didn't see anyone because it was DARK outside. (Side note: what about the thrid shift operators who work in industrial areas, or the janitorial staff that work off hours...)

I wasn't going to flame you until you wrote what I quoted above: it's one thing to street race, but it's another to try to justify it!

Look: go ahead and street race: I don't care anymore. BUT: Don't try to justify it as being safe. It's not. Even track driving is dangerous. STOP TRYING TO JUSTIFY STREET RACING AS BEING SAFE: it isn't!
<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

You asked for it, you got it.
-Zoltan.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Comeon, let it go. I am sure u have drag at least once. We all have.