Engine problems -Solved!
05-31-2003, 03:10 AM
#1
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Engine problems -Solved!
Hi, guys and gals! Well, I've come against a wall with my car, Kijo. Anyone that has been reading my thread on my Project: Kijo, will know that I kept the car from being turned into being parted out, and squashed flat.
But as with all rescued cars, they are not without their problems.
Following are the ones that concern me the most:
1) When we took off the catalytic converter, on the pipe to #2 and #3 piston, the pipe outlet was white; from #1 and #4, it was black. Now with the surging, there felt a difference on how #2 and #3 were acting, as apposed to #1 & #4, which seem to always be normal.
I can't help but think that problem 1 and 2 are connected.
2) She's surging in power, started last night; and then the meanest: she went through half a tank in 90 miles! That is unheard of, normally get 27-30 a gallon. Started to get worse last night.
There is no smell, but could it also be a fuel pump issue? When she's on the freeway, seems to be normal, but that's at a constant speed.
Coulld the surging be in conjunction with a leaking vacuum hose?
We shot some carb cleaner there, and it did change tone for a moment on the hoses that were beneath the top manifold.
Thanks ahead for the help, just need good suggestions to diagnose the problem. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />
- Julie
But as with all rescued cars, they are not without their problems.
Following are the ones that concern me the most:
1) When we took off the catalytic converter, on the pipe to #2 and #3 piston, the pipe outlet was white; from #1 and #4, it was black. Now with the surging, there felt a difference on how #2 and #3 were acting, as apposed to #1 & #4, which seem to always be normal.
I can't help but think that problem 1 and 2 are connected.
2) She's surging in power, started last night; and then the meanest: she went through half a tank in 90 miles! That is unheard of, normally get 27-30 a gallon. Started to get worse last night.
There is no smell, but could it also be a fuel pump issue? When she's on the freeway, seems to be normal, but that's at a constant speed.
Coulld the surging be in conjunction with a leaking vacuum hose?
We shot some carb cleaner there, and it did change tone for a moment on the hoses that were beneath the top manifold.
Thanks ahead for the help, just need good suggestions to diagnose the problem. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />
- Julie
05-31-2003, 04:54 AM
#2
Nordschleife Master
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Toolmaster, HELP! Need your advice!
05-31-2003, 07:46 AM
#3
Sounds like you have 2 cilinders running very rich, hence all the black soot in the header. would account for the low milage. I'm not that up on the Porsche fuel injection yet but possibly a couple of bad injectors? Any body else got any ideas?, Did you pull the spark plugs? where they similar in appearance? 2 very black and 2 grayish in color?
Just some ideas,
Bill
Just some ideas,
Bill
05-31-2003, 10:33 AM
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Devia -
I'm a sucker for a good looking car...
Ok. The white residue on cyls 2 and 3 typically indicate a wicked LEAN mixture. The soot on 1 and 4 indicate a RICH mixture. That would account for your surging.
If you sprayed carb cleaner under the intake manifold, and the idle changed, then pull the intake and check all them hoses for leaks. My guess is that one of the hoses to the idle stabilizer is leaking a lot of air.
If that doesn't show any issues, recheck all your connections to the sensors that are up there, like the AFM, and the TPS, etc. But carb cleaner changing the sound of the engine 99% of the time (assuming you didn't spray it into the intake pipe directly) means a leak.
HTH!
I'm a sucker for a good looking car...
Ok. The white residue on cyls 2 and 3 typically indicate a wicked LEAN mixture. The soot on 1 and 4 indicate a RICH mixture. That would account for your surging.
If you sprayed carb cleaner under the intake manifold, and the idle changed, then pull the intake and check all them hoses for leaks. My guess is that one of the hoses to the idle stabilizer is leaking a lot of air.
If that doesn't show any issues, recheck all your connections to the sensors that are up there, like the AFM, and the TPS, etc. But carb cleaner changing the sound of the engine 99% of the time (assuming you didn't spray it into the intake pipe directly) means a leak.
HTH!
05-31-2003, 10:40 AM
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Devia -
Also - another thought. What's the stuff coming out of the exhaust look like? 2 cyls running rich and 2 running lean could mean the stuff looks ok - even though it isn't right.
With the car running, try pulling the injector connectors - one at a time - to insure that EACH one makes a difference in idle speed. If it doesn't - there's something wrong with that cyl. Make sure that your spark plugs and wires are on the right way, the firing order is 1, 3, 4, and then 2. If 2 and 3 were reversed, they wouldn't fire right. But the car WOULD move and drive. If you really wanted to check the injector firing, pull the fuel rail, and put metal jars on each of the fuel injectors. (Glass works too but can break which spills GAS all over the place) and crank the engine a little. You should get gas in EACH jar, 2 injectors should squirt at a time. BE CAREFUL - an explosion here due to a cigarette, or flame, or anything, would mean we'd loose one of our members on the board - and I don't like that idea.
HTH
Also - another thought. What's the stuff coming out of the exhaust look like? 2 cyls running rich and 2 running lean could mean the stuff looks ok - even though it isn't right.
With the car running, try pulling the injector connectors - one at a time - to insure that EACH one makes a difference in idle speed. If it doesn't - there's something wrong with that cyl. Make sure that your spark plugs and wires are on the right way, the firing order is 1, 3, 4, and then 2. If 2 and 3 were reversed, they wouldn't fire right. But the car WOULD move and drive. If you really wanted to check the injector firing, pull the fuel rail, and put metal jars on each of the fuel injectors. (Glass works too but can break which spills GAS all over the place) and crank the engine a little. You should get gas in EACH jar, 2 injectors should squirt at a time. BE CAREFUL - an explosion here due to a cigarette, or flame, or anything, would mean we'd loose one of our members on the board - and I don't like that idea.
HTH
05-31-2003, 02:14 PM
#7
Not to get too far off topic here (and not to hijack your post), but you aren't the first person on this list to state they get in the high 20's for mileage. My car seems to run fine, new cat, new O2 sensor all new hoses and clean idle control valve, but I only get about 21 mph with about 50/50 surface roads and highway. And actually, that is about what the mileage has been for the 5.5 years I have owned this car.
Am I missing something? Is my car really not running very well?
Julie,
Having replaced the hoses on my car recently, the ones under the manifold, besides being a PITA to get to for obvious reasons, can get really hard and slip off their fittings no matter how tight you think the clamp is. The surging sounds like vacuum leak, but the lean/rich exhaust makes it sound like bad injectors (as others have stated)
A trick I saw on a DIY TV show is to touch each injector with the end of a long screw driver (with the car running) and then put your ear to the driver's handle. This works kind of like a stethoscope. If the injector is working correctly you should be able to hear it ticking clearly. If the ticking is faint or nonexistant then you have located a clogged or bad injector.
Am I missing something? Is my car really not running very well?
Julie,
Having replaced the hoses on my car recently, the ones under the manifold, besides being a PITA to get to for obvious reasons, can get really hard and slip off their fittings no matter how tight you think the clamp is. The surging sounds like vacuum leak, but the lean/rich exhaust makes it sound like bad injectors (as others have stated)
A trick I saw on a DIY TV show is to touch each injector with the end of a long screw driver (with the car running) and then put your ear to the driver's handle. This works kind of like a stethoscope. If the injector is working correctly you should be able to hear it ticking clearly. If the ticking is faint or nonexistant then you have located a clogged or bad injector.
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05-31-2003, 03:56 PM
#8
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I will have to check that; but I'm not even getting 21 mpg right now!
Anyway, it was working fine, until Wed. night; that's when her misbehaviour started, when there was the surging on the onramp on the freeway, and getting lousy gas mileage on the way back home.
Usually I get at least 70 miles per quarter tank, and that's bad to me, because that breaks down to 70 miles to three gallons. I was giving the car a benefit of a doubt, since we were working on it, and that equalled about 23 mpg.
Michael, I have no idea why your car is significantly different, sorry.
So yesterday I started with a little over half a tank, driving it to Legolands, and then to the DMV. I figure throwing the smog in, that still shouldn't be more than 80 miles, round trip.
Well she hit the flashing empty light on the way home!
The only other thing is that the sensor could be bad, I don't know.
- Julie
Anyway, it was working fine, until Wed. night; that's when her misbehaviour started, when there was the surging on the onramp on the freeway, and getting lousy gas mileage on the way back home.
Usually I get at least 70 miles per quarter tank, and that's bad to me, because that breaks down to 70 miles to three gallons. I was giving the car a benefit of a doubt, since we were working on it, and that equalled about 23 mpg.
Michael, I have no idea why your car is significantly different, sorry.
So yesterday I started with a little over half a tank, driving it to Legolands, and then to the DMV. I figure throwing the smog in, that still shouldn't be more than 80 miles, round trip.
Well she hit the flashing empty light on the way home!
The only other thing is that the sensor could be bad, I don't know.
- Julie
05-31-2003, 06:08 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Manning:
[QB]Not to get too far off topic here (and not to hijack your post), but you aren't the first person on this list to state they get in the high 20's for mileage. My car seems to run fine, new cat, new O2 sensor all new hoses and clean idle control valve, but I only get about 21 mph with about 50/50 surface roads and highway. And actually, that is about what the mileage has been for the 5.5 years I have owned this car.
Am I missing something? Is my car really not running very well?
QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Last time I checked the milage on my 88 924s (just after replacing all the under intake hoses and intake boot) I got 33 MPG on the interstate at speeds of 70 - 80 MPH. I thought it seemed crazy to be getting such milage, but it was true. I have not checked for my around town & combined driving mpg. What is the milage on your engine? Worn engines tend to not get as good as milage. My car has 60K miles. Compression was about 175 psi on all cylinders when I bought the car in 1999.
[QB]Not to get too far off topic here (and not to hijack your post), but you aren't the first person on this list to state they get in the high 20's for mileage. My car seems to run fine, new cat, new O2 sensor all new hoses and clean idle control valve, but I only get about 21 mph with about 50/50 surface roads and highway. And actually, that is about what the mileage has been for the 5.5 years I have owned this car.
Am I missing something? Is my car really not running very well?
QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Last time I checked the milage on my 88 924s (just after replacing all the under intake hoses and intake boot) I got 33 MPG on the interstate at speeds of 70 - 80 MPH. I thought it seemed crazy to be getting such milage, but it was true. I have not checked for my around town & combined driving mpg. What is the milage on your engine? Worn engines tend to not get as good as milage. My car has 60K miles. Compression was about 175 psi on all cylinders when I bought the car in 1999.
05-31-2003, 06:32 PM
#10
110K plus a little. The compression was even across all 4 cylinders, pretty close to what your getting, when I checked this past fall. Also, when I had my car e-checked last summer the tech marveled at how excellent the results were and couldn't believe the car was an '88. I've got to think the in-town driving is killing my average mileage (knock on wood)
By the way, you don't have any relatives in the Palm Beach area do you? I went to high school with a couple Zooks (early 80's)
By the way, you don't have any relatives in the Palm Beach area do you? I went to high school with a couple Zooks (early 80's)
05-31-2003, 06:44 PM
#12
Yeah!!! Another year round driver, kick ***!!!
Well that's a little reassuring, so maybe it is the in-town stuff.
Julie, do you spend most of your time on the freeway (in your car that is). Wait, you live in California, of course you spend a ton of time on the highway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Well that's a little reassuring, so maybe it is the in-town stuff.
Julie, do you spend most of your time on the freeway (in your car that is). Wait, you live in California, of course you spend a ton of time on the highway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
05-31-2003, 06:46 PM
#13
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"but I only get about 21 mph "
Shift into 3rd gear
Honestly, on long trips coimng out of NY City in fairly heavy traffic I still averaged about 29 Mpg.
Can't say what could be causing it for you though. Unless your real heavy on the throttle.
Shift into 3rd gear
Honestly, on long trips coimng out of NY City in fairly heavy traffic I still averaged about 29 Mpg.
Can't say what could be causing it for you though. Unless your real heavy on the throttle.