Potomac-Greg

Paragon sells the Escort Cup for about $1,700, so it's $500 below the "ballpark." That's significant in my view, and that's why I went that route. I should add that I was told TWICE by Jason at Paragon that the Escort Cup is too firm for street use. I chose to ignore him in part as a result of what I heard here, and in part because I bought the car specifically for track use.

And as to adjustability, you hit the nail on the head. Even if you adjust the height once, you will be at EXACTLY the height you want. Zero risk of dissatisfaction.

JustinL

I have the bilsteins on the rear with solid spherical bushings. I originally left the 550lb springs in combination with the stock TS rear torsion bars. I have 375lbs on the front and this setup was way to wild for me. It was brutally stiff on the street and oversteered like crazy on the track. I went into the grass backwards so fast my hatch blew open. Now I have 250lb springs on the rear and it's still pretty harsh on the street, but I can keep it pointed the right direction driving it hard. My car is primarily track with some street driving. I'm fine with it, but I voted against using a setup like mine for a daily commute.

cb951

Yes, it may be a large ballpark, but if you add adjustable camber plates, then you're there (along with the Cross kit "on special", which comes with plates). I put all of these kits in the same ballpark because there's a large jump in price above these. Bottom line here, for me, is that I don't want to end up with a coilover kit (with or without plates) with which I'm not happy on the street. Sure, I probably won't need adj camber plates for quite some time, but that's a secondary consideration. I'm looking for the right coilover kit for me.

How do you like the street ride with your Escort Cups? What spring rates do you have? Which valving did you go with for the fronts?

As far as adjustability --
I think that adjustability of the struts/shocks to achieve the desired ride comfort is, for me, more important than the ability to fine tune the ride height. Since I'll use the car as a daily driver AND a track car, I think the adjustability would not only fine tune the suspension (not that I'm experienced enough yet to feel the difference), but just enable me to use a coilover kit for street use at all.

Potomac-Greg

Thanks for the info. Yeah, that first setup was way too rear biased. My research showed that the combined effective rates for the rear should be around 100lbs more than the fronts (I'm going 400/500, and pulling out the t-bars).

Potomac-Greg

My Escort Cups are in a box on a UPS truck somewhere in the US, so I'll have to report later on how they ride.

porschefig

Excuse the jumbled nature of this post!
This is also why I'm not really interested in the Bilstein Escort Cup set up any more.. and why KW's *sound* like a good choice.

Beware of the oncoming apples to oranges comparison
My 83' 944 has Koni yellows F/R 200lb front springs and factory T-bars. It's not stiff nearly stiff enough to eliminate excessive body roll, etc. HOWEVER As far as I can tell, my dad's C5 ZO6 feels MUCH "less harsh" over bumps... but it is also so stiff that it feels like it would skip the rear-end over on mid-turn expansion joints if you drove it much faster.....

I want a set up valved in a way to be comfortable but perform better than my Konis..... AND I want to be able to set the height, balance F/R, etc.
Even the single adjustability of my Koni's has been very helpful at autoX (using the advice of more experienced drivers to determine what adjustments to make). They just aren't satisfying on Montana roads.

PS: I've heard that stiffer springs w/ my Koni's might actually ride more comfortably???

DVC

Chris- Reading your posts, I really think the KW V3 would best suit your needs. I'm really happy with mine. Combined with the Mo30 968 bars, the car is unbelievably flat and still yields a very compliant ride on the street. The Cross stuff is pretty harsh and only offers a single adjustment for rebound/compression damping. Also, do a search in the 964 forums and you'll see some issues. Shoot me a PM and I'll give you the info on the best price.

roman944

I'm going to be speaking from the Audi point of view, there are 3-4 major brands considered by S4/A6/A4 owners: Stasis, H&R, Billstein, and KW

they are all considered to be great sets, but as far as I know - H&R were the cheapest; Stasis is the most popular; Billstein provided the most "options", and KW was believed to be the best all around

also, as far as I could tell, people were by far less dissatisfied with their Stasis and KW setups; but, most people that wanted to drop their car low went with KW, while most that wanted a great track setup used Stasis

this is just the impression that I have gotten

I know many BMW owners favor H&R or Billstein setups

and I've seen all kinds of stuff used on 911 (GT2,3, Carrera etc.)

what I would like to know is, you guys are not talkinga bout buying shocks and springs separatly, you are talking about a full coil over suspention correct? if so, I did not know that Billstein or KW had this for 944's, or are you planting to use something that was made for a 911?

porschefig

Specifically for our cars; Bilstein has the Escort Cup set up and KW has a few set ups.

tifosiman

That sounds a little off for the rear. It should be a higher rate than that if you pull the t-bars. With 400/500 you will probably have understeer.

Potomac-Greg

Well, it fits within all recommendations that I got from Rennlist, a local DC site and from Paragon. I guess if I had to be wrong, I'm wrong in the right way. Next buy may be an upgrade rear stabilizer bar.

From Paragon Products:

Escort Cup:
Note 1: It is impossible for us to come up with a spring choice that will fit every racer's needs appropriately. If removing torsion bars, we can very generally recommend a front spring rate of 600 lbs/in matched with a rear spring rate of 700 lbs/in. If not removing torsion bars, we recommend you have a look at our technical discussion regarding effective spring rates to determine what rear spring should be matched to your choice of front spring rates

Koni Spec 944 Package:
We normally recommend 350# front springs and 30mm rear torsion bars but the choice is yours. (30mm torsion bar = 335lb spring).

JustinL

I think it may be easier to talk about spring rates in terms of their effective rate. A coil spring on the rear has an effective rate of I think .54 (can't remember exactly) and the fronts of around .97. A 30mm torsion bar with effective rate of 335lb as stated would have a substantially different stiffness than running a 335lb coil spring without torsion bars.

mj951

DVC, care to elaborate on your setup?

Potomac-Greg

According to this article, a 30 mm torsion bar has an effective rate of 335lbs which would translate into a coilover spring rate of 600 lbs (i.e. it would take a 600 lbs coilover spring, alone, to replace a 30mm t-bar). So my 500 lb rear coilover springs will translate into something between 28 and 29 mm t-bar, which should match up fairly well with 400 lb front springs.

http://www.tech-session.com/kb/index.php?article=39

tifosiman

If the fronts are .97 effective, and the rears are .56 effective, then:

400X.97=388
500X.56=280

388 is not equal to 280.

The front would push, or understeer.

*Tire size, pressure, compound, and swaybars have not been factored in.