Larry Dumoff

I did not think it would be this difficult to upgrade the front springs from 400# to 600#. 1984 with rebuildable struts. I sent the inserts to Koni for revalving and they sent them back saying that these cannot be modified. Nor do they have a replacement insert for the increased spring rate. Paragon said they are working on it but nothing to offer right now.
However, I broke a spindle last spring and went to great pain to replace them with 1987 spindles(and rotors). This required modifying the struts for the different bolt spacing. If I had been a little smarter I would have asked these questions 7 months ago.
I am looking for recommendations for strut replacement that will fit with the 1987 (NA) spindles and increase the spring rate.
While I am at it I will need to upgrade the rear setup as well. I currently have the oe torsion bar with helper springs. I am not sure I can increase the helper spring dampers in the rear so it seems likely that I will look for coil overs to replace the torsion bar. Looking for specific units to fit on the 1984.

Thanks guys

J Silverman

LOL koni cant revalve their struts? Did they say why? Did you talk to someone in the motorsports division?

If you have an attachment to Koni products, Id look in to getting a pair of 8611 double adjustable race inserts. If you dont care if its Koni or not, Bilstein has a couple of options for you (escort and firehawk setups)

What class do you race in?

Van

Bilsteins are the cheapest way to get good shocks that can be revalved (by Bilstein Motorsports). Otherwise, go for JRZ, Moton, Leda, etc.

There are lots of good threads on spring rate matching - do some searching.

M758

Larry PM

924RACR or seach for him. He can help you out.

924RACR

Cheers! What J & Van said - Bilstein can be rather nice. I've been very happy w/ them, over 7 seasons now on the racecar.

For the fronts, you should be all set getting the Escort or Firehawk setup; since you have the later spindles, they should bolt right up. Can't remember where the valving leaves you; I'm very close in spring rate, at 650#, was running 400/125 (rebound/compression), but it's a little stiff in compression... planning to have them bumped to 100 compression over the winter break here, not sure I want to change the rebound yet, have to think about it. Maybe just a little, like around 350-380. Mainly it's a lack of grip on turn-in I'm fighting; corner exit isn't such a problem.

For the rear, I find the 34mm torsion bars match up fairly well - but of course YMMV depending on swaybar setup too. I've been running 400/140 rear, recently dialed the compression back to around 125 IIRC. These are on Bilstein circle-track tube shocks (B46-LT45), which can be obtained with threaded body for helper springs. Can't comment on what kind of spring rate you'd want back there, though.

mclarenno9

Hey Vaughn,

Do they make torsion bars larger than 30mm for late model 944/951 cars? I keep hearing about them but can't find them anywhere. I have seen them for 911's but not for 944's? I do know you have a 924 but I was just wondering...

J Silverman

Should be the same VW bars in the old 924s and the newer 944. Check with Paragon, I thought they could get the larger bars. If not Im sure sway away could make them for you.

924RACR

Yes, the t-bars are all the same. Yes, I got mine from Paragon; once you go beyond 30mm they're custom order and twice the price of the off-the-shelf Sway-a-Way bars!!! They also took a while, like a couple of months (not Jason's fault).

Makes coilovers sound even cheaper, doesn't it???

FWIW, in my race class we're not allowed to use a spring element not of the original type, so we're stuck with t-bars only, no helper springs. That's why I went for the spendy custom bars - had no other choice to get more spring rate in there.

M758

I believe the big ones are also hollow. So if you compare solid 30's to hollow 34's the cost will be much higher. I think hollow 31's (largest off the shelf size, 30 mm effective rate) is similiar in cost to hollow 34's.

ryoji

The largest hollow bars were 34mm effective rate (little bigger than 35mm in diameter) from the Sanders and the price of them was the same as any hollow off the shelf...Paragon did not charge any extra.

Wonder if no one make solid big ones?

Larry Dumoff

Great responses. Thank you all. After speaking with Karl P at Racers' Edge I am leaning towards Leda all around. 2008 44Cup rules allow removal of the torsion bar. I will go to coilovers. Need to include metal bushings and reinforced pick up points in the rear.

924RACR

Sorry, good point, thank you, forgot mine are "34mm" hollow, so actually slightly larger than 34 but that's the effective rate. And yes, all the hollow ones are same price, last I looked. Between that and the effort for installation, why not go as big as you could possibly need!?!

Larry, sounds like you're on the right track; definitely if you can replace the (rear) trailing arm bushing and large rubber torsion bar carrier mounts at each side, low and in front of the wheel, that'll put you in good shape.

Larry Dumoff

Thanks Vaughn, That is pretty much what I discussed with Karl from Racer's Edge.

Van

FYI... Karl doesn't have Ledas on his car...

In fact, if his car is still for sale, that would be the best route (and cheapest in the long run). I've raced against him and was thoroughly impressed.

What exactly did you have in mind for "reinforced suspension points"?

Larry Dumoff

Van:

Banana Arm Bushings; upper/ lower Torsion tube bushings; Racers Edge lower shock mounts. No changes to the mounting locations.