Lemming

There's your problem, stay on the gas (edit: bill beat me to it!)

I use this very thing to my advantage to get my car to turn.

What size tires are you running front and back?

M758

Mid turn throttle lift = oversteer? HA you have GREAT BALANCE. That is what you want.

Is the car stable at turn in?

Can you get down the power or do you need to lift to keep the car from spinning?

If you have issues in these locations you have too much oversteer.

When I autocross my stock 83 it was quite well balanced. At turn in I could easly get the back end to rotate and then get on the gas to settle things. I once did get way too much oversteer and I knew this because I could not get all the power down and had to lift to keep the car balanced. This was slowing me down. So I added 5 gal of gas to lower the rear ride height (easy with soft stock springs) and the car's balance was PERFECT.

fork_included

not true, every tire has an optimal temperature that should be run at regardless of all the other variables.

M758

38 PSI in yoko ES 100 is plenty for the rear of a 944. Don't go higher it will NOT help the grip any. I ran ES100's on my stock 83 at 36 psi all the way around on my 225/50 R15's. You have no need to go more than 38.

knfeparty

It's too hard to explain all of this without making myself sound like an idiot. I've put a 911 into a tree some years ago. I know you can't lift all the way off without expecting some loss of rear traction.

But I had some really experienced people ride with me and they thought it was not normal. I've learned to drive with it and I'm getting good times, but I feel like a little alignment or something could get me a lot more speed out of the car. I'm at the point in the slaloms where I have to pulse the gas just right to go the speed I want, because any less gas and it will spin when I turn for the next cone, and any more and I will centerpunch the cone instead. I just wanted to know if there was some common problem I should be looking for. I am going to take it to a race shop tomorrow and we'll see what the verdict is.

Yabo

Pulsing the throttle in a slalom? Isn't it faster just to hold a steady throttle the whole way through?

insite

it sounds like you may be toed out a little in back. this will cause lots of oversteer in either direction (especially on lift).

knfeparty

It is when the slalom is big enough. That's the way I ran on a course a couple times ago. But this last one I would have centerpunched the cones. Granted, I could never get the car to understeer so maybe if I had super-fast arms and could steer the car quick enough it might make it with me all the way on the gas. This last course was fast, and you'd be lane changing or slaloming at 50mph or so, and I couldn't not slide through the sweeper for the life of me.

I'm running 215/60 r15s on 15x7" phonies all around.

I'm considering the add more gas idea. I've never run with more than a quarter tank and I always take everything (that lead spare included) out of the car.

M758

Try leaving the spare in place or test with and with out it. On stock cars weight in the rear lowers the back end adding understeer. Still it does not sound like you have a severe issue.

Toe could be an issue, but I think that toe is really a problem during braking and will cause the rear end to wander alot.

The other thing is that if it only occurs in slalom's then really think the problem could even be driver related. IE not approaching the slalom properly or getting "behind". One of the most important things to do in slaloms is to stay way infront of the cones turnin well before the cone rather than right at it.

You can still check your aligment however. Toe in the rear should 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch in measured at the tire. If you have less it can make the back end unstable.

2BWise

Try taking slaloms with a more steady throttle application. With all the on/off/modulation you're getting a lot more weight transitions. Left and right as well as front and rear.
Also, got an open diff? I found that once I get the inside tire spinning I go all dorifto. Finally fixed it, but it means being less aggressive with my inputs. I'm far smoother with my throttle application and have slowed my steering inputs to make the weight transfer more gradual so that I can feel when the tire is about to spin and correct correspondingly to avoid it.

What maybe helping your times is the fact that your car tends toward oversteer. You're possibily getting more rotation than the other cars in your class, which will give you an advantage on a technical course.

M758

I agree with this idea. For autocross due to the tight corner you really want an oversteering car. As a driver you learn to manage the oversteer to maintain speed. The ONLY time oversteer gets to be too much is when you no longer can get the power down on the way out of the corner.

My 944 spec set up for track use has probably too much understeer for autocross. In fact I would probably reduce my rear toe to get the car more unstable at turn in. Then simply manage the oversteer with steering input and throttle. At one autocross in my 83 on street tires I did very very well. That course was mostly a series of tight 180 turns. I would go intro each corner trail braking to pitch the back end to get the car to rotate and then once rotated enough stand on the gas to get out of the corner. I practically did a 180 spin for each of these corners. Worked great. The other thing to note is slow down your steering in the slalom. Powersteering cars can actually cause ovesteer because of "overturning" this means you are turning too much for each cone. Turn less and if the rear end steps out when lifting use that to your advantage and lift a little to get the car to roatate then get back on the gas to catch it. This combined with LESS steering input maybe just way you need.

knfeparty

What started this was a right-exit slalom that was quickly met with a wall of cones that you had to go left through a tiny gate, and then turn back right about 90 degrees to point at the finish.

For your entertainment:
http://www.duke.edu/~wag/1.jpg
http://www.duke.edu/~wag/2.jpg
http://www.duke.edu/~wag/3.jpg
http://www.duke.edu/~wag/4.jpg

Yes, I tapped the wipers. It happens.
Look at the lines in the pavement to gauge how far I am moving in each shot.

2BWise

If I'm looking at it right you're making a right around that corner of the grass?

If so, that's a pretty big slide. It looks like you've got a lot more room to the left. I would think you'd want to lessen the steering angle and let the car come out further instead of (I'm guessing here) tightening up as you came thru. Try making the majority of your steering input before your apex and taking it back out as you come out of the corner.

knfeparty

You're right, it's a right turn around that corner. That's what I was shooting for, but the back end stepped out when I got on the gas. Fun, but slow. There's been a lot of interesting information and ideas I look forward to trying out next time I autox the car. Thanks for input.

Z-man

BTW: How long have you been AXing?