100 octane low-lead plane fuel *IS IT SAFE*???
01-29-2007, 07:11 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by jakery
I'm looking for local options for higher octane fuels.
There is a Sunoco in Nasua NH that sells GT100, but it is $7.00 / gallon
There is also a small airport that sells 100 Octane LOW-LEAD for $3 / gallon.
A much nicer price
Would it be safe to run "low lead" gas in my 951? What are the side-effects?
-thanks.
There is a Sunoco in Nasua NH that sells GT100, but it is $7.00 / gallon
There is also a small airport that sells 100 Octane LOW-LEAD for $3 / gallon.
A much nicer price
Would it be safe to run "low lead" gas in my 951? What are the side-effects?
-thanks.
01-29-2007, 07:28 PM
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My co-worker has a son in the air force who is a fuel specialist. I asked him about this in the past and he told me that aviation gas has been engineered to run at leaner mixes than automotive fuels and it would not be benificial to run it over race fuel. I was told aviation fuel would require retuning in order to benefit from burning it. I would just go with unleaded race fuel. It is designed for automotive use and would be cheaper too. I just run 93 octane and have no issues at 20lbs boost.
01-29-2007, 10:03 PM
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The last chemical plant I worked at (about a month ago) made tolulene for one of its processes. The 3rd shift mechanics would get a jug of it and dump in their tank, when no one was around. They swore that it would make regular gas- high test and high test - race gas. I was skeptical and wasn't around at the right times to try this myself. Now I kinda wish that I still worked there, free high test anytime that I worked a late shift.
As for leaded gas. The older small block Chevy heads (don't know about the rest) that were made before the lead was taken out of the gas, have to be machined for a nickle based insert where the valves seat. I was told that using unleaded fuel would wear the original cast iron valve seats out if used often. So they put a nickle based insert in to keep the vavles sealing well. I do not know the science behind this. This is what the most trusted engine builder in my area told me when, I asked what the heck he was doing to a set of heads when I was at his shop one day.
As for leaded gas. The older small block Chevy heads (don't know about the rest) that were made before the lead was taken out of the gas, have to be machined for a nickle based insert where the valves seat. I was told that using unleaded fuel would wear the original cast iron valve seats out if used often. So they put a nickle based insert in to keep the vavles sealing well. I do not know the science behind this. This is what the most trusted engine builder in my area told me when, I asked what the heck he was doing to a set of heads when I was at his shop one day.
01-30-2007, 10:37 AM
#19
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Thanks DJC,
I'll be sticking with Race fuel and xylene. Why can't the cheap solution ever be the right one!!!!!
I'll be sticking with Race fuel and xylene. Why can't the cheap solution ever be the right one!!!!!
Originally Posted by DJC-928S
Don't ever run 100LL in any non air-cooled engine not specifically designed for it. The 'Low Lead' term is a huge mis-information. This fuel actually has about six times the tetra-ethyl lead content of the old leaded auto gas. The lead is there for one reason only, to raise the octane rating, not for valve lubrication and other myths. If you want to see lead fouling in spark plugs and build-up on valve stems that will cause binding, then this is the fuel. Even older air-cooled aircraft engines made for 80/86 octane before the days of 100LL will lock valves in pretty short order. I've had emergency landings to free up stuck valves because only 100LL was available at the last fuel stop. Even in modern aircraft engines plugs foul fast. So you're asking why 100LL is still used if it does this, well, the industry needs the higher octane but getting newer fuels approved for aviation is... lets just say not easy. If I remember correctly there used to be 100/110 (green) but I haven't seen it in over twenty years and even 80/86 is tough to find in most areas. You're way farther ahead to either buy race fuel or use xylene or some other carcinogen to raise your octane if you need higher than what you get at the pump. And also for cars, as others have said, 100LL will ruin your catalytic converter. I admit to using it in my mower at times but never straight, 50-50 with regular. I hate to waste fuel samples. Hope this helps.
01-30-2007, 10:45 AM
#20
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I use toluene in every tank and have excellent result I run at least two litres per tank and if feeling racy I bump it to four. No negatives to date and l;ots of positives!
01-30-2007, 10:55 AM
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Where do you guys buy toluene?
I googled it, but can't find a distributor////
Is it an over the counter item @ autozone or the local pumping station?
and i guess the same qustion goes for xyxlene.
I googled it, but can't find a distributor////
Is it an over the counter item @ autozone or the local pumping station?
and i guess the same qustion goes for xyxlene.
01-30-2007, 11:11 AM
#22
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Home depot sells toluene in one gallon cans. A paint store will have both toluene and xylene in bulk as needed as they are used for paint thinners amongst other things. Xlene is also used in making some illicit drugs (as a sidebar item).
01-30-2007, 01:56 PM
#23
Drifting
lead content will foul the catalytic converter, and any style of oxygen sensor, in short order.
You may also run into legal trouble running aviation fuel in a highway vehicle, as the appropriate taxes have not been levied. This can cause trouble for you and the airport.
You may also run into legal trouble running aviation fuel in a highway vehicle, as the appropriate taxes have not been levied. This can cause trouble for you and the airport.
01-30-2007, 06:29 PM
#25
Lead was intended as a lubricant for older cars that used cast iron. Lead, when it burns, creates mercury vapor. Very bad. I had an MBG-GT and we had to add lead to the gas because the valve seats would wear out other wise. I don't think you should use leaded gas, even if it is low lead. But im not an expert.
01-30-2007, 06:56 PM
#26
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I researched Tolulene quite a bit back in tyhe supercharged miata days. It's 107 or 117 (can't remember) octane and you shouldn't use more that 20-30% mixture. It'll start to cause some corrosive damage IIRC if you go higher. I just got 92 (highest in these parts), then added about 10% and could bump the timing up and not have any issues, even at the hot track. YMMV
James Reeser
89 944 S2, no boost, but no problems either
90 Miata supercharged, SOLD and currently being riced out.
James Reeser
89 944 S2, no boost, but no problems either
90 Miata supercharged, SOLD and currently being riced out.
01-30-2007, 10:04 PM
#28
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Very interesting thread. On a fun run into the Sierras about a year ago two guys with older 911's ( 72 and 80) both tanked up at the guys small airport with 110LL. Their cars both ran great but we were above 6000 feet most of the run so they didn't need knock protection anyway? About a month ago I saw Clayton's 80-911 and it smoked like a freaking chimney on decel and hard throttle. It even smoked bad when he would start it in the morning. I wonder if that LL fuel did any valve/seat/ring damage because I know it ran fine before that run. Makes me glad I didn't take him up on his offer to tank up. Personally I have used xylene with good results, especially to help pass smog on 'borderline' cars here in Smog **** land.
01-30-2007, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by flashgordon
My co-worker has a son in the air force who is a fuel specialist. I asked him about this in the past and he told me that aviation gas has been engineered to run at leaner mixes than automotive fuels and it would not be benificial to run it over race fuel. I was told aviation fuel would require retuning in order to benefit from burning it. I would just go with unleaded race fuel. It is designed for automotive use and would be cheaper too. I just run 93 octane and have no issues at 20lbs boost.
