Royal Tiger

First off, ford is not VW. VW is making money, while ford is actually bleeding more red ink then GM, if that's even possible. Their quality is the worst in the industry, and they lead ALL manufacturers in recalls in this country.
Second, the 5.9L V-12 Jag motor, which is the basis for the one in the Aston, is esentially two ford Duratec 3.0L V-6's. As reported in Car & Driver as well as Automobile.
Third, new product development for most of PAG is directly based upon ford platforms:
Volvo S40/V50 = ford focus
Jaguar X-Type = ford mondeo (was the Contour in the US before being dropped)
Jaguar S-Type = Lincoln LS
Fourth, The Land Rover Range Rover uses a BMW designed motor developed during their brief ownership. The next gen will use a ford motor.
Fifth, Look at all 3 Aston Martin's, especially from the front. Which one is which? You can't tell.
That was my point. I dislike fords greatly. I do realize their money pumped life into those makes in the short term, but most have leveled off or have actually begun dropping back in sales and definetly in quality. And as for Porsche and VW, Porsche just bought INTO VW instead of the other way around in the past. Porsche currently leads ALL car brands in profit per vehicle by a substancial margin and it is growing.

yellowline

VW is known to be bottom of the barrel in terms of quality, too. They also had a major scandal earlier this year.

The Bugatti Veyron W16 is made from 2 VW W8s, it moves the car just fine. The 944 engine is 1/2 a 928 engine.

Jag's sales have dropped short-term, but quality had nowhere to go but up when Ford took them over. Which has happened.

As far as Porsche's profit margins, that hot-selling Cayenne, the antithesis of a Porsche, should do wonders for that. *cough* not *cough*

Cass944

dang this sure went the wrong direction

Byron_944

First off, ford is not VW. VW is making money, while ford is actually bleeding more red ink then GM, if that's even possible.
VW isnt exactly racking up the profits-it has recently been a struggling automaker, albeit it is not struggling as bad as Ford is at the moment.
Their quality is the worst in the industry, and they lead ALL manufacturers in recalls in this country.
Second, the 5.9L V-12 Jag motor, which is the basis for the one in the Aston, is esentially two ford Duratec 3.0L V-6's. As reported in Car & Driver as well as Automobile.
And the same people from Car and Driver will tell you that the DB9's engine is one of the best sounding in the world, is quite powerful, and well made. Heres a quote from Car and Driver: "No longer does the DB Aston live by beauty alone. This is the best-sorted, most thoroughly engineered Aston Martin of all time." Ford isnt exactly ruining Aston Martin.
Third, new product development for most of PAG is directly based upon ford platforms:
Volvo S40/V50 = ford focus Albeit this is a European Focus, not the American one. It is quite an advanced platform, and is derived from a car that has a very high standing in Europe.
Jaguar X-Type = ford mondeo (was the Contour in the US before being dropped) This, I agree, was a mistake.
Jaguar S-Type = Lincoln LS Ask anyone whose driven an LS--it is still one of the best sports sedans on the market-its looks are quite underwhelming, and its a Lincoln-but apart from that, it handles extremely well and is very nicely engineered. So the SType's basing on this platform isnt necessarily a bad thing
Fourth, The Land Rover Range Rover uses a BMW designed motor developed during their brief ownership. The next gen will use a ford motor. It isnt quite a "ford Motor-its a 4.4 Liter V8 from Jaguar, which is an extremely silky smooth and very powerful powerplant
Fifth, Look at all 3 Aston Martin's, especially from the front. Which one is which? You can't tell. I simply fail to see the point. How is this in any way indicative of a cars standing from a quality standpoint? Even such, differences can be viewed, and are quite apparent.


Although strikingly similar, they are yet so different
That was my point. I dislike fords greatly. I do realize their money pumped life into those makes in the short term, but most have leveled off or have actually begun dropping back in sales and definetly in quality. And as for Porsche and VW, Porsche just bought INTO VW instead of the other way around in the past. Porsche currently leads ALL car brands in profit per vehicle by a substancial margin and it is growing.

If there is any carmaker that has not watered down its brands, its Ford. With the exception of the X Type, every new Jaguar, Aston Martin, Volvo, and Land Rover sticks to its heritage. Look at GM and Saab-I fear that if GM owned Volvo, we would be reading about the demise of Volvo at the moment. Ford just infused money into every one of its car brands, and the results are showing.

tod84944

The same mag's you quoted about Ford sharing platforms, also state that the quailty of Jaguar has grown by "leaps and bounds" since the Ford purchase. I love the look of the Aston's. I have seen a couple in person, and I think that they are one of the most beautiful cars out there.
As far as Ford, they are selling the Mustangs' as fast as they can build them. The F-150 is still the best selling vehicle in the WORLD. If they were crap, would so many people keep buying them over and over again??? I really don't think the Honday Ridgline will be giving them much trouble.

tod84944

Cass,
I apologize. That Bentley is a sweet ride. Can you hear the turbo's spool up on it???

RMills944

Instead of the next purchase, it sounds like he needs to give out some raises...

wjk_glynn

In 1994, Aston Martin made a total of 40-cars for the entire year.

If Ford hadn't bought them, they would have disappeared.

Karl.

hacker-pschorr

Sorry about that.

Great looking cars! When will the southern Wisconsin 944 crew be hosting a "tour" of this hanger?

Royal Tiger

While I acknowledge ford money has saved them, there is a distinct disention in the corporate ownership. You have your opinions and have posted some good info, as have I, but in the end, I can still dislike ford (anyone here running out to buy a Five Hundred or Fusion?) and you can if you like. I would rather own the 911 Turbo S then the V-8 Vantage. That's my choice. I would think alot of people here would make that choice. Wasn't rying to rile the masses. If ford had this support across the country, they wouldn't be 2 billion in the hole.

Tom R.

Screw the plebes, let them eat cake. he NEEDS to adopt me.

As to platform sharing, etc. who cares. it is the end product that counts. drive a caddy seville sts and drive a buick lesabre and tell me they are the same. same platform, same assembly line.

Based on the silly arguments in this thread, chew on this little factoid: the 944 turbo/951 is a POS because it is the same car as the original 924 which was underpowered and had a bad motor etc.

I intend on winning lotto so I can get a bentley.

Byron_944

If you dislike Ford itself, thats one thing. My one experience with a Ford automobile was not a pleasant one, to say the least. But Aston Martins, Land Rovers, and Volvos arent Fords.
A 911tt is a lot better to drive than an Aston, but the Aston has a lot more exclusivity, and looks a lot better.

All right, I apologize to the topic starter for contributing to this thread going off topic. Back on topic, I think the Flying Spur looks a lot more 'trim and petite' in person than the Continental GT. The continental GT looks like a tremendous coupe, while the Flying Spur just looks like a rather large sedan. It lacks true road presence, IMO, as does a Maybach, but its still an extremely good looking sedan.

ZPmadA

Isn't the Mazda 3 based off the Volvo S40? So the Mazda 3 is based off the Euro Ford Focus? All 3 cars share the same chassis?

Byron_944

Yes. The volvo S40, and Mazda3, are based off of Ford's C1 chasis, which also underpins the European Ford Focus.

Tom R.

i was talking to someone at GM about this platform sharing stuff. from our conversation I got the impression that platform sharing does not share as much as we want to think is shared, and at the same time shares more than we think.

with cars like the rendezvous/aztek and venture minivan the sharing is a lot more than with say the seville and lesabre. the same with ford/mazda/volvo.

the ford and mazda may share some of the basic underpinnings, but with volvo in order to take it up a notch there are a lot more differences. the auto industry learned a cruel lesson with the caddy cimarron that they do not want to repeat.

the contour/jag is another example of sharing too much. they took the success from the S and LS and figured the buying public could be hoodwinked with more contour than jag parts. it didnt work.

Acura/Honda is another example of how the upmarket brand can share some basic parts, but make it different enough to justify the additional cost, and to make it a different driving experience.