Dmitry S.

Matt - yes, but since the turbo ring gear is bigger, it still meshes with the pinion in the starter.

944 Bellhousing:
944.116.401.2R casting number
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-...spagenameZWDVW

951/951S Bellhousing
951.116.401.1R Casting Number:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...spagenameZWDVW

Maybe when Andial built your motor, they used a 944 n/a clutch assembly?

Andial951

Dimitry,

You might be right. So lets say Andial did use the 944 housing in which case if the housing I have on now is also a 944 housing then why the problem with the starter?

What about my thoery of the starter installed too deep into the housing?

95Juan

try putting some more washers on there.....it looked like you were either missing some or in somewhat in a hurry.

that's really weird tho. i'm not sure about different bellhousings and the such, as there were supposedly no clearance issues with the bellhousing it had on there before (same PN, right?). just try matching the same starter/bellhousing that was on there before.

KuHL 951

Roger- Todd is correct. I'm almost positive you have to use a 951 bellhousing. The mounting hole locations kick the starter gear outboard enough to clear the 951 starter ring. The starters for an N/A and 951 are the same as I've swapped them on both my cars, even though the bodies are different size. Looks like your mechanic got the wrong bellhousing and owes you a better explanation.

Andial951

Steve,

Thanks for the great info. I guess it is clear now that the bell housing is wrong but why is there no part number on the bell housing? How are you supposed to know if you have a 951 housing or a 944 housing? The casting number I have (944-116-401-2R) doesnt show up on your list for either the 944 or 951 housings? It would seem logical that the 951 housing would start with 951 but that casting number i got was off the original housing that the mechanic took out.....which would seem to imply that the original housing was from a 944. Unless of course the casting number has nothing to do with the part number.

Do you have anything which shows how the 951 housing is different from the 944 housing? Something that shows the measurements........ specifically the area for the starter?

Thanks

ryans

Hi Roger, You should sue whoever sold you your car. I've never seen so many problems so quickly with a 944. If you need someone to attest to it let me know.

I do have an extra bell housing in my garage. It has the part # QM 11 112. It's from my 84 but if the mechanic stops by and wants to compare it's here. It's pretty light to carry too.

ryans

Basch starters are different for Auto and Manual for the 968's.
"944 604 103 X" is the A/T
"944 604 104 X" is the manual.

I googled 944 604 103 X and this came up. Looks like a great reference. Search for Manual for Tranny info, or Starter for starters.
http://www.cccvette.com/make/porsche/remanufactured.htm

Andial951

OK......here is a new theory....I need some help with this one since I'm not a mechanic.

Is it possible that at some time the PO put a 944 clutch on the car and then used a 944 bellhousing? And what if the flywheel was for a 944. Then lets say my mechanic comes along and puts in a 951 Cup clutch on the 944 flywheel. Would the travel of the clutch assembly be different in this case? Would this then maybe be the cause of the scrapped starter?

Like I said before the original bell housing that was on the car had a casting number starting with 944.....I dont know for sure but this could mean it was a 944 bell housing....which may have been placed on the car becuase the PO used a 944 clutch.

Does this make sense? Is it possible?

I still wish someone could show me a diagram of a 951 hosuing and a 944 housing so I can see what the differences is between the two.

KuHL 951

Roger,
I think the only way your car would run with those N/A parts is with a 944 DME and no boost. The turbo sensors read a different signal than an N/A and all the tuning would be fubared. Are you sure the flywheel he took off was a 944 part number? I just don't see how they could have mixed up the parts like that and still have the car run. The two bellhousings look almost identical. I wish I had both here to compare them for you. I still think you have to have the 951 flywheel, and bellhousing to run a Cup or Spec clutch.

special tool

Andial - the difference is at the end of the number - one is 2R and one is 4R.

The problem is the bellhousing - I AM NOT GUESSING 101% SURE THAT IS WHAT IT IS.
The turbo bellhousing moves the starter a few thou.

Also - you mechanic ****ed up your first bellhousing (and now is not telling you) because he stripped the cheese-head Porsche PP bolts and tried to use regular allen heads (like the NA). This does not work because the turbo bolt is a special low head height bolt so that it does not contact the bellhousing.

There was zero speculation involved in the making of this post.

Andial951

ST.....Thanks for the input......I was hoping you would post on this topic and clear things up.

Steve.....thanks....you are probably right....no way they could have used a 944 flywheel and clutch previously. Since you say that the 2 housings look exactly alike the only way to tell would be from the part number.

Mechanic is coming tomorrow.

ryans

Here are some links to manuals. If you want to look into it.
http://www.cannell.co.uk/Manuals.htm

Andial951

Ryan,

Thanks for the link. Thats great stuff. Iwasnt able to find any information related to the measurements of the bell hosuings for the 951 versus the 944 but ST says they are different so they are different. I did however realize that Andial must have put in the 89 clutch becuase it had the 6 springs instead of 3 which was stock on the 86.

cas951

Do you still have the old starter? Did it work with the setup you have now? If it did, find a shop that will rebuild that one. This should fix this issue temporarily. I would hate to go back in there to change the bell housing. Just a thought.

Zero10

ST is most likely right. I don't like the 101% sure stuff, since that violates some fundamental rule of mathematics I'm sure, but other than that...

Just giving him a hard time...
He is absolutely correct however. If a 944 bellhousing is used over a 951 clutch, it WILL fit, not nicely however, and bad things like this will happen. The starter is not too far in, just in the wrong position, more of a too far up kind of thing.

The 951 clutch will not bolt onto a 944 flywheel, so don't worry about that possibility. Because if they did it, neither bellhousing would work, lol.

So, your car had a 944 bellhousing on it before, strange. Is your old mechanic a Porshce mechanic? Is it possible he showed/gave you somebody else's bellhousing to hide his mistakes?....
There is more to the story than he is telling. Bellhousings do not go bad, they only break when people do stupid things to them.