Hi All,

First off, please forgive me if this topic has already been discussed. For some reason I can't seem to get the search function to work.

I'd like to begin tracking (for fun). A friend and I would like to purchase a car in which we can compete in a variety of races including endurance type races. I am the current owner of two cars that would probably already foot the bill, but I can't bring myself to put either of them on the track. I just restored the M3.

My requirements:

- reliability
- ample power (a car I wont "grow" out of)
- good handling
- good brakes
- relative track worthiness - a car in which I wont need to upgrade everything

Me: I'm relatively handy and can do most repair and maintenance myself (I restored my M3 from top to bottom with help only in rebuilding the engine). In other words a timing belt change or (heaven forbid) a clutch job are within my abiliites.

I've looked at a number of cars so far (need to keep it under $10K):

Miata - nice but slow
Mr2 (2nd gen) - most unreliable car I've ever owned, hard to work on too.
Rx7 (2nd gen) - probably unreliable
BMW E30 325is - fun car (I've owned two) - lousy brakes
BMW E36 - just don't like em
944 - see Miata comments
944 (S) (S2) (Turbo) - yes please
911SC - also yes please

So I've narrowed it down to a 911SC or a 944 variant. Assuming I do most or all of my work, I'm thinking a 944T would be the best performer of the bunch. Can I realistically build a reliable 944T for $10K? It doesn't have to be beautiful, but I do want it to be reliable. I'm learning toward the 944 because parts are plentiful, the wonderful handling, great brakes, etc. I'd actually consider a rat that I could rebuild. How much do these engines/turbos cost to refresh? Would an S or S2 be a better idea?

I'd like to go a 911SC, but the car is a challenge to drive and not nearly as balanced, no ABS, etc. I guess that would also make it fun. However, I think the entry price would be a lot higher.

Any and all thoughts are welcome.

TIA,
Joe

1995 Porsche 993
1988 BMW E30 M3 2.5 (240HP) daily driver

 

most 944 turbos aren't going to have ABS btw...

as far as the price range goes, I'd be looking for a 944s. To buy a 951, and put the maintenance into it so that it would be both reliable and race ready, you're likely going to have to spend a good bit more than 10K. also, for the price range, I would suggest you look for an already prepared track car, rather than building one yourself, as it will save you a ton of cash

 

You're definately not going to find a 911SC for your budget. I know, I looked and anything decent was around $15k including necessary maintenance. You can easily build a 951 for $10k, the maintenance on the cars is somewhat substantial, but can be done by a diy'er. I beat on my 951S all summer on the track and didn't have one failure and had a great time.

 

First of all, define 'tracking'. Are you refering to road courses or autoX.

Your requirements may need some clarification.

-A 911 SC will be more reliable and require less preventative maintenance.

-A 951 will have good power with far more potential to grow with you than a SC.

-You already have a 911 so imagine you already know what to expect from the SC with regards to handling. Be sure to drive 944 for comparison. Many drivers enjoy the neutral balance of the 944 but most 911 owners I spoke with find them 'less lively'. Here you need to choose your perspective.

-The 951s have supurb brakes. The SC i drove didn't compare. Fairly, it may have been the pad choice of the SC owner.

-I can't imagine either the SC or 951 NOT being track worthy. Given similar driver skill, the 951 will run away from the SC on all but the smaller tracks which keep the 951 out of it's power band. As old as these cars are, many parts require replacement and since so many 'upgrades' such suspension components, brakes, etc actually cost less than OEM components, upgrading is not such a bad word.

You may want to give a 944S2 or 968 a look as well. For about $10k, you will get a far better 951 than SC.

 

From maintenance and reliability perspective, the 951s aren't that great overall. But when you compare little details to other cars, 951s are SOLID sports cars.

The 911 has a good weight advantage going for it, as well as the engine configuration. Time and time again, 911s prove to be superior with PROFESSIONAL drivers.

It comes down to how much you want to spend. To make the 911 a formidable opponent, it's going to take more money, but in the end it will be a better car.

 

Thanks for all the replies for so. Very interesting.

Daniel, I'm looking to road race. Docwyte, unfortunately I think you're right about the entry cost of a 911 SC.

A few scenerios:

1. let's assume I find a rat (approx $4K - $5K) that I bring up to snuff (engine, trans, suspension). What are my potential reliability issues. Timing belts/clutches shouldn't be a factor once put right? What else goes wrong? FYI, I did this with my M3 and it cost me ALOT in the end.

2. I see 80K mile 951s all the time for $8K or so. Assuming the engine is healthy, how much more should I need to get the car ready? Where do I need to invest my money? For example, I know these cars have great brakes right out of the box

Thanks again guys!

Joe

1995 Porsche 993
1988 BMW E30 M3 2.5 (240HP) daily driver

 

Too bad you're on the opposite corner of the Country. I would offer my 944S2 which I think would be an excellent track car candidate. Does your $10k budget include upgrades to make your car track worthy? If not, you are probably looking for a car in the $5k-$7k range with minimum safety and suspension upgrades costing another $3k-$5k. Then there's the tires, pads, and other money sucking expendables. As was mentioned, only the 951S models came standard with ABS. ABS was standard on the S2 and 968. The 951S will give you the most bang for your buck however turbo cars can also cost the most bucks when they go bang. An S2 will not be as fast as the 951 but will be quicker (IMO) than the SC.

Happy hunting and good luck,
Mike Dayton
'95 968 M030 Coupe
'91 944S2

 

The SC weighs 2600 lbs and the 81+ models were rated at 204 bhp due to a compression increase. Thats a pretty formidable power to weight ratio. Better than the S2's for the matter.

 

Serge944...I meant no disrespect to the SC. I love all Porsches and especially 911s. I will agree with you that the p/w numbers on paper look better for the SC although the S2 is near the same ballpark at 2900 lbs and 208 bhp. The numbers don't always translate to the track though. I made my statement as opinion based on what I have seen in a few real world situations.

Peace,
Mike

 

Where are you seeing 80K mile 951s for $8K?

 

I'm by no means an expert on the value of these cars, but here's one:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/search...irst_record=76



Joe

1995 Porsche 993
1988 BMW E30 M3 2.5 (240HP) daily driver

 

Oops, try this one:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...n&cardist=1514

Joe

1995 Porsche 993
1988 BMW E30 M3 2.5 (240HP) daily driver

 

That car actually looks really good!

Btw, your daily driver is sweet.

 

Theres lots of 951's for sale now, 8K and less. It's not the season to sell, and the prices reflect it. The 951 will be the funnest of them all, with lots of room to grow, but reliability will be an issue. I will personally recomend the S2. Almost as much power, and reliability is almost not an issue compared to the 951. You still get the same brakes, suspension, body etc, just a 208 hp 16 valve 3.0 NA motor instead.
944 S will probably be to slow for you.
If you are in santa monica, I'll be more then happy to show you my car.
Eyal

 

yea, the S is probably a bit slow for you, although if you reduce the weight quite a bit it can be decent. mine's for sale if you're interested and has a lot of track mods already.

i agree with most of the above comments.....if you're looking for power and reliability, go with a S2, 968, or 911. if you want ultimate power but can sacrifice the reliability and can do the work yourself, go with a 951