Looking to Build a Track car 944 or 911SC
#31
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I think you need to learn a bit more about acing before jumping in. Of course you will need a cage. You'll want to find out about what classes are around you and determine which one you would like to compete in. Since you're in SoCal, Spec 944 is probably your best bet. Your budget should put you into a decent one.
I certainly wouldn't say you couldn't handle faster, but I think you would be a bit surprised driving a full prep race car. HP is a small component of the excitement of racing.
I certainly wouldn't say you couldn't handle faster, but I think you would be a bit surprised driving a full prep race car. HP is a small component of the excitement of racing.
#32
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Comparing a spec car to a stock class 951 is hardly far. Give the 951 the same level of preparation and the difference in lap times will be quite large. Even so, 1-2 seconds a lap is an eternityesp when you take into account the spec car is fully prepped and the 951 is stock.
#33
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Originally Posted by docwyte
Comparing a spec car to a stock class 951 is hardly far. Give the 951 the same level of preparation and the difference in lap times will be quite large. Even so, 1-2 seconds a lap is an eternityesp when you take into account the spec car is fully prepped and the 951 is stock.
Fully prepped depends upon your frame of reference. One of the beauties of the Spec 944 class is they limit the modifications to commonly available off-the-shelf parts that are relatively inexpensive. Full prep would be solid bushings, double-adjustable true race dampers, heavier rate springs and t-bars or even eliminating the t-bars completely. It would include new engine management as well as other changes.
Anyway, the point Joe was trying to make was that after stripping the NA, upgrading the suspension, and doing a few hp adders, the performance he'll experience will exceed his frame of reference performance.
#34
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And if you put those same type of parts onto a 951, what's going to happen? Come on, a spec prepped race car vs a stock class car isn't an apples to apples comparison.
#35
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Originally Posted by docwyte
Comparing a spec car to a stock class 951 is hardly far. Give the 951 the same level of preparation and the difference in lap times will be quite large.
The 944 spec runs 2600 to 2625 with driver. That 500lbs closes the gap between the extra hp of the 951. Both cars have worked on suspenisons.
My 1-2 seconds is real experience on the track. Heck even an F 911SC ran only 1-2 seconds faster... Get this we have driver who had a 911SC ran it in PCA F stock. Now he got a 944 spec. Same driver runs 1-2 seconds slower than his F-stock 911. Considering the price gap that 1-2 is nothing. Then also consider in So-Cal and POC or NASA event is likely to have 4-5 944 spec cars... then it is great way to race a Porsche. Plus we spec driver actually help the new guys get faster.
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#36
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944's are just fun and guess what, a piston kit cost near $5000 for a 911 engine
the 944 N/A is the most forgiving car of the 2 you are looking at. Since it doesn't have a turbo, you don't have to predict when the turbo will kick in when you are cornering. You are also going to find in a 944 that all the cars with more power are only going to get away from you in the straights. The 944 is a good learning car whether you race in PCA, SCCA, NASA, etc...
I race in PCA I-class in a 944 N/A and it is the most fun I've ever had on the track. People who race these cars generally will tell you how you can go faster. You learn how to not scrub off speed and how to get the most out of the car. In my opinion, if you are ever ready for something faster than a 944 then you better be setting records in the class you are racing it in.
In the end, the choice of car is yours
the 944 N/A is the most forgiving car of the 2 you are looking at. Since it doesn't have a turbo, you don't have to predict when the turbo will kick in when you are cornering. You are also going to find in a 944 that all the cars with more power are only going to get away from you in the straights. The 944 is a good learning car whether you race in PCA, SCCA, NASA, etc...
I race in PCA I-class in a 944 N/A and it is the most fun I've ever had on the track. People who race these cars generally will tell you how you can go faster. You learn how to not scrub off speed and how to get the most out of the car. In my opinion, if you are ever ready for something faster than a 944 then you better be setting records in the class you are racing it in.
In the end, the choice of car is yours
#37
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I have an '86 951 and a '79 SC. I had the same question, "Which car do I use for a DE car?" Well for me it boiled down to this:
1. My 951 is too nice to beat up on the track.
2. The 951 can eat rod bearings on the track if you aren't careful. $$$$
3. My SC is kind of a rat and I'm redoing some body work now. I'm planning on getting it out next spring. Unfortunately it is a targa. I would have preferred a coupe.
If I had to choose from a fresh beginning I would go with the 951. Based upon the cars I have, I went with the SC.
1. My 951 is too nice to beat up on the track.
2. The 951 can eat rod bearings on the track if you aren't careful. $$$$
3. My SC is kind of a rat and I'm redoing some body work now. I'm planning on getting it out next spring. Unfortunately it is a targa. I would have preferred a coupe.
If I had to choose from a fresh beginning I would go with the 951. Based upon the cars I have, I went with the SC.
#38
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Originally Posted by gmsracing
Unfortunately it is a targa. I would have preferred a coupe.
My friend makes these:
http://www.rennlight.com/hardtop/
#39
Three Wheelin'
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Joe,
To sidetrack you a bit, what was your complaint with the e30 brakes? Was it fade, or pedal feel? If it was pedal feel, I'd suggest that you drive one with the master cylinder from the 7-series (the same upgrade used for the M3). It makes a world of difference.
-J
To sidetrack you a bit, what was your complaint with the e30 brakes? Was it fade, or pedal feel? If it was pedal feel, I'd suggest that you drive one with the master cylinder from the 7-series (the same upgrade used for the M3). It makes a world of difference.
-J
#40
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Please come out to a POC event before you make your decision. Do alot of research, because if you do not it will cost alot of $$$.
Talk to folks in the pits, enter the event and get an instructor to give you a ride. If you enter, you can run your 993 and go out for a session in an instructors 944. I am at many of the short track events and would be glad to instruct and let you experience a Spec 944. Look at the lap times on our last STS(#7). You will be surprised to see many Spec cars running faster than...yes... heavily modified 993's (LP class) etc... http://www.porscheclub.com/
The fun factor is very high, costs are low (relatively speaking as low cost and racing is an oxymoron). The competition is fierce as there is always a great turnout of Spec 944's and we are all running virtually identical cars. The main difference is setup of the same parts. It is a fun bunch and we all help each other so there is alot of trackside support. Very important as all race cars can break. You would be surprised at the racing resumes of several of the Spec 944 drivers. They have ALOT of experience racing other cars, many with conciderably higher HP and choose to run this car. As far as speed...well...I used to track my not exactly stock 993 and am having alot more fun with this car. I still have the 993, but am now concidering selling it.
If you want to contact me directly as I am in So. Cal (Manhattan Beach), please PM me and I can go into many more details. I have researched this extensively and Spec 944 was my conclusion.
Talk to folks in the pits, enter the event and get an instructor to give you a ride. If you enter, you can run your 993 and go out for a session in an instructors 944. I am at many of the short track events and would be glad to instruct and let you experience a Spec 944. Look at the lap times on our last STS(#7). You will be surprised to see many Spec cars running faster than...yes... heavily modified 993's (LP class) etc... http://www.porscheclub.com/
The fun factor is very high, costs are low (relatively speaking as low cost and racing is an oxymoron). The competition is fierce as there is always a great turnout of Spec 944's and we are all running virtually identical cars. The main difference is setup of the same parts. It is a fun bunch and we all help each other so there is alot of trackside support. Very important as all race cars can break. You would be surprised at the racing resumes of several of the Spec 944 drivers. They have ALOT of experience racing other cars, many with conciderably higher HP and choose to run this car. As far as speed...well...I used to track my not exactly stock 993 and am having alot more fun with this car. I still have the 993, but am now concidering selling it.
If you want to contact me directly as I am in So. Cal (Manhattan Beach), please PM me and I can go into many more details. I have researched this extensively and Spec 944 was my conclusion.
#41
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Originally Posted by Jon Moeller
Joe,
To sidetrack you a bit, what was your complaint with the e30 brakes? Was it fade, or pedal feel? If it was pedal feel, I'd suggest that you drive one with the master cylinder from the 7-series (the same upgrade used for the M3). It makes a world of difference.
-J
To sidetrack you a bit, what was your complaint with the e30 brakes? Was it fade, or pedal feel? If it was pedal feel, I'd suggest that you drive one with the master cylinder from the 7-series (the same upgrade used for the M3). It makes a world of difference.
-J
In the end, the e30 (non m3) is a sporty sedan. It is by no means a sports car.