Ken D

If your mechanic has driven & analyzed the car for a week and still hasn't figured it out, it's time to find a new mechanic. I don't know what his level of experience is with 944s (or Porsches in general), but IMO anyone who quotes you $1000 for a pair of front struts is not in tune with these cars. They are relatively simple cars in that at best they utilize early 1980s technology that has been fully developed & 'debugged' over the years.

Before you put the car up for sale, allow me to offer a suggestion. One of the first things I did after buying my first Porsche was to hook up with my local Porsche Club of America region. Your local PCA region can assist you in finding the best qualified mechanics in your area. Usually these are shops that specialize in Porsche repair and are active in PCA, often as tech advisors or tech inspectors for PCA Club Racing/Driver's Education/Autocross events. It has been my personal experience that the shops active in my PCA region are also some of the best at Porsche repairs. Being in B'more, I think this is your local PCA:

http://www.pcachs.org/membership/membership.html

Along with Rennlist, PCA is a great tool to help you with Porsche ownership.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Legoland951

Front strut inserts from KYB costs me less than $100 a pair and no more than one hour of labor to install it. Even at $130 an hour, that is $230 total. These struts are nothing special and any competent mechanic should be able to change them out. Any decent 944 mechanic should be able to figure out fuel delivery problems pretty easily and the most expensive part is the fuel pump, which is no more than $150. There aren't really that many parts in a fuel system that can affect the car in the way you describe (fuel pump, check valve, fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator/damper, and injectors). Heck, there has to be a rennlister in your area with used parts you can "borrow" for diagnostics purposes. Typical time to replace fuel pump with check valve: 30 min, fuel filter: 20 min, fuel pressure regulator/damper: 10 min each, all 4 injectors: 30 min and I am being liberal in terms of how long each item takes to remove and replace. Follow Ken's advice and look for another mechanic. You were able to find this one before and you can do it again. Too bad you live too far away for one of our S. Ca. get togethers because we change out struts for BBQ meat and beer.

Justitia

Thank you everyone for your feedback. As this has become a long thread and I know that it is totally boring to read all of the old ones, as there are a number of points that keep coming up, I want to summarize here.

My mechanic and the high prices

1, My mechanic, Gregg, always worked for me privately and charged me cost for after-market parts and $50/hour. He is one of the best diagnosticians in the mid-atalantic.

2. Due to totally unexpected circumstances (not his fault), he suddenly was no longer able to work on my car privately. His day job is as a Porsche Dealer mechanic. He said I should try to get a mechanic down here closer to Baltimore.

3. Literally, just as he stopped being able to be my private mechanic, I suddenly started having the above listed problems. I had not had time to find anyone else. SO my only choice was to bring it to him through the dealer. Hence, that is why the prices are so high --and this is after they are giving me every break they think they can squeeze without the owners catching on.

My service record and costs from 155,000 - 200,000 miles (all done privately by Gregg)( this is what I have immediate records for on my PDA --I have all records elsewhere)

2001: $2100

1. $1433.00 -- at 155,355 miles ---15,000 mile service, 30,000 mile service, oil change. The service means that all the hoses, filters etc that Porsche says to be replaced, etc for those services were replaced. (it was my request to do that.) I do not have the list with me for the moment (it's in my car, but I am sure it exists on line) (This was acutually done by Harry Hall, who used ot work on my car until Gregg took over -- I think there was more than that but I don't have the records before me)

2. $100 --- at 159,000 miles -- done in local shop, not my mechanic: airconditioning hose, oil change, belts tightened.

3. $555 -- (don't have miles) New ball joint for passenger side, headlight changed and wire repaired passenger side, Air conditioning freon (2 cans of old expensive stuff -- I think $45/per can) because of leak in airconditioner. Gear shift boot changed (leather wore out), fix heater vent that did not shut when AC was on. Vacuum leak under dashboard. Oil change

2002: $710 (I was gone for several months in spring and summer)

1. $650 -- at 167,000 -- Air conditioning compressor replaced, conversion to new freon, oil replaced, all fluids checked and filled.

2. $60 -- (don't have miles) -- convert back to old freon (new one did not cool enough for me.)

2003: $1400 ( I was away for 7 months and housed my car with Gregg --he checked it out and did whatever he thought as necessary.)

1. $470 Front and rear brake pads and sensors (I wore them away), front bumber shock replaced (I recall that someone hit my car in parking lot), at my request he had the car fully detailed.

2. $640 -- 174,000 miles -- a whole bunch of stuff that I never got recorded but it included the timing belt replaced., the 15,000 and 30,000 service work, the altenator replaced. oil change

3 $292 --- 175,000 miles -- New Tires.

2004: $1675

$484 -- 181,000 miles-- Oil change, replace temparature transister, replace cassette box

$55 -- 182,000 miles -- air condition fluid test.

$150 -- 185,000 miles -- new spark plugs

$310 -- 186,000 miles -- new starter motor

$100 -- 186,000 miles -- Oil Change, DME relay switch replaced, general check-up (fluids, etc.)

$1060 -- 187,000 miles -- clutch replaced

2005: $2772 (most in the last few weeks at dealer)

$140 --190,500 miles -- oxygen sensor, oil change, raised Driver's seat.(my request.)

$450 -- 192,700 miles -- replace AC condensor, recharge with 2 lbs R12 refrigerant, replaced left headlight, possible broken wire, replaced some fuses

Now At Dealer instead of private (had no choice --car had problems immediately after Gregg could no longer work on it privately.)

$800 194,500 miles -- 15,000 & 30,000 mile service,adjusted cam and shaft belts, replace air and fule filters, replace r/f sway bar bushing, various bulbs (hoped this would also solve drop in power problem as it did not happen when he had it. For 3 days drove great. best in long time, drop in power problem and then cam shaft broke.)

$1332 194,850 miles -- camshaft broke, took engine apart replaced cam shaft with a good quality used part (dealer gave it to me at cost) , replaced timing and other belts.

Current diagnosis: (only preliminary diagnosis)

Gregg has driven car several days to experience the problem. Hasn't had the complete unable to start problem but has had everything else happen that I experienced.
He has not diagnosed but is only giving a preliminary diagnosis --so I won't be charged anything. (Also dealer gave me free rental for 2 weeks.)

He says he is pretty sure it is a fuel delivery problem.

He thinks probably it is one of the 3 following:

1. Fuel injectors (never have been changed),

2. air flow sensor,

3. cooling temp sensor.

He disconnected O2 sensor to give richer mixture and drove it for a few days, seems to some extent to overcome problem but not get rid of it

He also says that the front shocks are really bad and rear ones are not great. (Rough streets in Baltimore :-))

If he spends the time to acutally diagnose the problem I will have to be charged dealer rates for labor.

The service manager (who, though a kid and abruptly new to this position) said, that as a friend, he would tell me I should not have them do it, it will cost too much even if he gives me every break he can get away with, that I should go on Rennlist and ask you guys to help me find a good reasonable mechanic and have these things done privately.

They both think though, that I should start researching for a new car as well. Because it might be that this is just the beginning of a number of problems and I will get nickled and dimed.

The odds are extremely high that Gregg's preliminary guess of one of the 3 is correct.

So there's the deal.

I plan to pick up car on Thursday, hope it will survive through winter, hope you guys can help me find someone who can do the shocks and start with one of the 3 items above.

Someone here has already given me an idea what replacing the 4 fuel injectors might cost.
Anybody have an idea what replacing the air flow sensor and the cooling temp sensor might cost?

Anyone know anyone within a 60 mile or so radius of Baltimore that can work on these things without too much cost, who is trustworthy, careful etc. I will really miss Gregg.....

Does the "refresh" suggestion that someone posted earlier cover any of these things?

I also have a slow oil leak some where (I don't recall where.) But it has been there for 10 years.

Thanks, everyone....you guys have been so helpful.....

UDPride

I go back to my inital response: restore your peace of mind, not the car. Were we talking a rare pcar or one with a prior ownership history that included Liberace or something, I could see hanging on, but 944s are a dime a dozen. This car gave you an honest run. After 15-20yrs however its time to bury the hatchet and move on to something else. You cant drive it forever. Let it become someone elses problem. Find a newer lower mileage 968 with fewer hassles. Might cost you a few bucks more than maintenance on the current one, but at this rate, if your peace of mind isnt worth the modest difference, let alone your time and aggravation, well, this conversation is moot.

Find a 75,000 mile 968 tiptronic and enjoy the comfort and convenience a little more in that rush hour comute.

Justitia

Well, I am definitely beginning to research for a new car and hope that the old one will hold out until I find one I really like but I still need a local mechanic to help either way.

So I have now read up a little on the 968 -- and that does seem like a good choice.....

I am open to suggestions for finding a new (used) car. I have never done this. I have always bought all my cars new or in one instance, I got my car from my mother-in-law, who was the orginal owner (a stripped down Mercedes Benz bought in Germany.)

UDPride

Think of it this way. If you sold your 944, and you eventually would, you would have few reservations recommending it as a good car to buy -- even if it needs some sprucing up here or there.

Same goes for when you are shopping. There are great used cars floating around. Most 968s are still owned by relatively middle/upper-middle class people who bought them new. What Im getting at is they had some bucks. You bought your 944 new. You had some bucks. So people with bucks usually dont buy a new car and then tear the living hell out of it.

The 968s are so much more refined than the 944s. A lot more power too. Very smooth cars. A tiptronic would make a daily driver. The vario-cam engines are like a Lexus compared to the 944s. Smoth power band, no lag, and pretty reliable (no turbo but with turbo like power). The interior is a bit nicer (different seats, stereo setup), the 968 suspension is much better, brakes are better, steering is better. Xs and Os wise the 968 is just a better car price notwithstanding.

Its apaprent you love your Porsche, so stick with the breed but upgrade. Back when you bought your 944 you threw what your momma woulda described as "crazy money" at a car that cant seat more than two people and two midgets from the movie Willow. At under half that price in 2005 dollars no less, you can upgrade to a better car at twice the reliability, 1.5x the power, and half the miles.

I see it as a no brainer. I find the 968s damn sexy too. I think $14,000 would find you a real nice, unmolested, moderate mile 968 with good service records.

Dont fear buying a used car. The only fear is getting past the notion that you are buying someone elses problem. Most people dont sell cars when the car has a problem. They sell them because of a lifestyle change (need money). Let your instincts rule and have your mechanic check one out. If its two thumbs up all around, dive in. 968s were $45,000-50,000 cars brand new. Odds are if you find a 1 owner car it was taken care of. Few people afford that much jack to blow on a car and not have a pot left to **** in to take care of it.

TRWright

I am with UDPride.

You can not even compare a 944 to a 968. The level of refinement is something totally different.

Considering the cars are built on the same platform, this is tough to believe.

. . .and no one even knows what I am talking about unless they have driven one.

Justitia

Well, I am definitely getting sold on the 968.

But first I need a good mechanic within 60 miles of Baltimore. I can't buy a car without a mechanic and Gregg is gone for me as a mechanic. He might be able to help finding a car but won't be able to be a mechanic for me any more.

alordofchaos

OMG, that seems just sooo wrong.

The rest of your maintenance list lists one sum and several repairs - some look reasonable, but this one really jumped out.

It's been a while since I've priced spark plugs. What's a reasonable price for 944 plugs - $3~$7? so, $25 max for four plugs?

It's about - what, a half hour of labor if you took two 10-minute coffee breaks?

Can someone recommend a good place for a PPI for her?

500

Well,

I was one of the ones suggesting you keep it, and I still think that is a valid choice. Having said that, it is equally valid to decide to sell it and move on. I had the opportunity to drive two 968s in the past and they are great cars (REALLY good cars). UDPride is spot-on in regards to the fact that most 968s are still owned by people who have spent significant $ to purchase them and will have generally treated them better.

The Porsche Club of America had a great classifieds section, and there are usually a few nice 968s listed. I would also watch the Rennlist classifieds. Most people who belong to PCA obviously are enthused about their cars and have taken better than average care of them. If you can afford to spend in the low 20s, you can find low mileage samples (<40K) in extremely clean condition. As UDPride suggested, 14K will find lots of good choices with a little more mileage, but still very clean.

billatlanta

Great thread I have followed from the beginning. This is a tough decision. I don't know but with all the attention and care you have provided for your 944 I believe you just need to get your current problem sorted and the car should continue to be reliable transportation. You have a much more solid base you are starting with then most cars that are out there. You will have maintenance, but I believe any Porsche with 100k miles plus you need to expect it the 968 being no exception. So even though you may jump into a 968 with half as much mileage as your 944, from a economic perspective you could be spending the same or more on maintenance. I am sure maintenance on a 968 costs more then a 8 valve 944, no? Granted you can not compare the ride quality and power. I suspect (as suggested) if you can grab one from an original owner that has just had a lifestyle change that would be great, (and don't limit yourself to the Tip, if you can drive a manual go for the 6 speed) but I would suspect more then not someone is tired of the maintenance and is looking to sell it . You should plan in addition to the acquisition cost you should set aside some money to get it sorted properly and fix items that most likely need attention. As you can see I believe there is life left in the ol' gal you purchsed new considering the care and feeding you have provided over the years and the manner in which you drove it.

Lastly not to confuse you any more but if you have made up your mind to part with the ol'gal and look for another Porsche how about a Boxster? You are seeing them in the upper teens and I believe the maintenance on that car maybe less, and the drive is great. They too like all Porsches have had their share of problems but you maybe able to land a nice one at a good price due to overabudance of supply vs demand, Porsche made lots of them.. If you stay with Porsche (no matter what you decide) join the PCA and to go a local chapter meeting. You will meet terrific people like those on this board that can help you with your maintenance or future purchase. Best of luck and keep us posted on how things go.

Scuba Steve

The loss of power is nearly identical to a condition my car had last winter, the way you describe it. The problem wound up being with a bad solder point somewhere in the computer. Free fix with a soldering iron. Maybe someone from here can help out - there's got to be someone around the Baltimore area with a garage and some tools.

Justitia

I think the problem here is my recording. I remember the plugs being replace, I was with my mechanic when he did it...but he did a bunch of other stuff that was more cosmetic and replaced some things along those lines as well. I just didn't record it. If you notice there were 3 different times at about the same odometer read that I saw him. I may have misrecorded when he did hte oil change.

I think you see that the rest of the charges are quite reasonable... I don't even have listed everything that was done each time...I tended to write the most critical things to know.

Justitia

I picked up my car from the dealer with no charge, not even for the car rental!

I must say, the people at the dealer have been doing what they can to give me as much support without charging me. I am sure it is b/c of Gregg.

They gave me quotes as to what they would have to charge, at dealer prices, for the things Gregg suggested but of course they knew I would not do it there. But it would give me a benchmark to compare other quotes... I think that's why they did it.

I did join PCA and I spoke on the phone with the contact for my region (Chesapeake). His name is John Cochran and he was very nice and very helpful. He gave me the name of the mechanic that most of the club members use and that is Geneady Soyker who owns GTPerformance. He said he was good, smart, honest and not very expensive. Since Soyker was along rte 95, I called and asked if I could stop on the way down from Newark. He said yes.

1. It is clear he is very smart and he is involved with setting up cars for racing.

2. He has no time now b/c it is still racing season and so he told me to wait a couple of weeks.

3. He has a pretty large shop with quite a crew working for him (4-5 people, I think.)

4. He knows of Harry Hall, one of my two mechanics, the one that retired and moved away. He did not know Gregg, but Gregg is not as big on the racing scene, but he is the one Harry always turned to when Harry got stuck in trying to solve a problem.

5. He definitely lacks "bedside" manner; he was rather cold and arrogant and condescending and just stared at me unblinking through the whole conversation like waiting for me to "attack" or something. I usually can charm anyone into feeling connected with me, at least on first encounter...what a blow to my female ego.

6. He clearly wants to do his own diagnosis and doesn't care what Gregg said; which I understand...but I would have liked it if he would give some credence to Gregg's thoughts...but he sort of acted like he needed to prove that he's the Alpha male, or at least the Alpha male now!!!

7. He did talk about how prices would be different if i was talking street car vs. racing (and I am a "street car" person.)

8. He wants me in the interim to try dry gas to eliminate the possibility of water in the tank (Gregg says extremely unlikely as the problem is really only there when the car is cold or warming up.) Is there any risk of harm using dry gas in the car? I think he just wanted to give me something to do while I waited.

***So though I joined PCA it takes them 3-5 weeks to process my application so I can't get on line to see their classifieds. Can anyone help?

Scuba Steve: A few years ago, I had a similar stall, loss of power and not start problem due to a solder that went bad, though not in the computer but another place that a previous mechanic had done that just got old. Took a year to figure it out b/c of course it never happened at my mechanics', who was then Harry Hall. Gregg came over, just to look himself (first time I met him) and found the cause in 25 minutes. That was impressive. But I think Gregg would have checked that out in this instance, if he thought that was the problem.

billatlanta: you have put the problem so clearly, echoing what others have also said on this thread, on either side... In fact, you have made the decision even more agonizing by the clarity of the pull on both sides...to repair or to jump to a used 968. The looks of the Boxster did not excite me for some reason. But the 968 sounds and looks pretty good...but as you said, I will be facing the likelihood of similar expenses anyway even after the purchase.

Does anyone have other suggestions for a mechaninc in the area: now I have Soykher and Ralph's.

In the meantime, I will just have to bide my time, until Soykher can take me and I can get on PCA's classifieds.

Lawn Gnome

Cignatta Motor Works
Mechanic: Dan & Dennis
2111 Emmorton Park Road
Abingdon, MD 21009
(410) 679-7600

These guys are great with water cooled Porsches. Dan races a couple 944's and 924's. They are up in Harford County so its like 15 minutes from Baltimore