Sorry son, but you are the clueless one here and a rude one at that.

True. But the gain is small compared with other things that can affect power.

You're repeating yourself because you like to hear yourself talk.

First of all, Campeck is quite correct that the factory located the air source in the fender. Secondly, there is NO positive pressure where the 951 sources air. The engine will suck more air (yes, even turbos suck air in - they compress it and force extra mixture into the cylinders, but they have to suck it in first) than natural air-flow will provide, so it's NOT positive pressure. Ram air is positive pressure, and ram air is pretty hard to accomplish (marketing BS aside) with a production car.

Pretty much worthless.

You're not only a blowhard, but an ignorant one as well.

First of all Campeck is 100% correct about the resonance tuning effect of the longer tube located inside the fender. Well designed cold air intakes make 75-90% of their power increase not from the cold air, but from the resonance tuning effect of the longer intake tube. Now, how do I know this? Well one of my best friends is an automotive engineer for an OEM, a magazine writing, used to work on the TRD GTP engine program, etc etc etc (I could go on, but I won't). He is intimately familiar with cold air intakes and has worked with AEM on their cold air intakes. They dyno test every design by starting with a long tube and doing dyno runs. They cut a quarter inch off the tube between run sets (sets to insure repeatability) and when they find the length that produces the most power, that is what they put into production.

The resonance tuning effects of long tube cold air intakes are well documented. Some say that the theory is bunk, but the real-world testing shows it to be true and repeatable.

This is NOT BS. It's not Riceboy HP. This is real-world that is repeated on the dyno all the damned time. I'm sure you'll make up some reason that the dyno is wrong.

You @#$%^^%$#. Where do you even get off suggesteding the Campeck would lie?

After reading your statements I don't expect you to believe anything I say either, but I don't care. I know it's true and I have 3 friends who are automotive engineers working either for OEMs and/or aftermarket performance companies that do a butt-load of R&D including on the dyno for performance mods.

You sir are a buttmunch. Perhaps you are the one "on the pipe."

I for one will be doing this very thing in controlled dyno testing. I'm building a SCCA ITS 944 and this is part of my plan. The results will be posted, no BS, no lying, no ghey GTECH PRO for back-up (I'll use a dyno). This is all assuming Rita doesn't wipe out my entire racing program - a very real possibility considering where my shop is located vs the projected/possible path of the storm.

The key to making this set-up work correctly is the adapter that is used. Campeck has the best one I've ever seen. I will design one in CAD (or have it designed) that should be a bit better. Anyway, the key is to taper from a round opening to a square opening very smoothly. Anything less will disrupt the air flow and hurt results. I think that is why all intakes on the 944 suck becaue 99% of them just use a ring welded to a plate, thus screwing up the air flow right at the meter, one of the most crucial points in the intake tract.

Campeck, sorry I didn't back you up sooner. I've been spending the last two days boarding the house in prep for Rita. Hang in there dude. You ARE on the right tack and you'll get there. Don't forget that you may need to have a way to add fuel because if you add a lot of airflow you may go too lean and need fuel to make pax power. A little lean will add power, but a lot lean will rob it. Let me know when your car is going again and you're ready to start testing.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Tifo, man one of these days we'll have to meet up. I need to buy you a beer or two! :thumbup: :cheers: :cheers:

As I said, boarding up the house. Time to pray that we, 1) stay alive, 2) the house stays reasonably intact, and 3) that my race shop isn't wipe out, which at this time would put an end to my racing program.

:thumbup:

:cheers: thanks for coming in on this man!

as for your house, livelihood and LIFE, i hope you and all who dwell in the path of the hurricane the best of luck!

i just got a "bone" stock engine in the new car. and was thnking about using this one as a test bed since the head hasnt been shaved and it hasnt been rebuilt (most 944's)
then ill do it on the red cars engine.
:thumbsup:

I'd like to see one paper or analysis that shows it is _resonance_ that makes the improvement. Or have your buddy write it up. Don't spare the technical depth.

This is my favorite:

I'm pretty sure the intercooler isn't in the front bumper air to suck in cooler air like your statement above implies. I am pretty sure it is getting sucked in out of the left front fender area and the intercooler is in the bumper to act as a air to air heatsink/heat exchanger to cool the air that got sucked in from the fender area and compressed, thus heated, by the turbo.

:rolleyes:

Hahaha, this guy spreads about the worst misinformation I have EVER seen in my life!

You are truly CLUE-LESS - You are trying to tell me that GREATER POWER ISN'T ACHIEVED VIA COLDER DENSER AIR!!!!!

If so, then you are EVEN MORE CLUE-LESS THAN I SUSPECTED!!!

My previous post (that you are referencing here) is TURBO #101 stuff (elementary/basic) - COLDER DENSER AIR = MORE HORSEPOWER!

That's why the 951 has (and turbo cars in genral have) an INTERCOOLER !!!! :banghead:

You must be a NEWBIE to the turbo scene - 'cause that statment would be supported by everyone who has a thumbnail of knowledge about turbo cars.

Like I said, even normally aspirated cars (non turbos for newbs like you!) benefit from cold denser air, just not to same extent as forced induction (a turbo car for you NEWBS!) automobiles.

That's why AMBIENT (outside air)TEMPERATURE is SO IMPORTANT for turbo car performance. That's why sticking a K&N filter on a 951 without a proper closed air intake (from the outside - like the FACTORY set-up) will result in a DECREASE in HP/PERFORMANCE because it's sucking in HOT ENGINE AIR! Don't even get me started about how HOT ENGINE AIR (via a K&N cone filter WITHOUT a closed intake or MAF trap) will also F*CK UP your turbo car's timing too (I know from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE - via data that I recorded in VAGCOM on my Audi S4 2.7T biturbo) - because that' beyond your knowledge base! (based on your looney rebuttals to my posts)

The fact that you tried to use MY (previous) POST AGAINST ME shows that YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE about turbo car performance and that I shouldn't even be wasting my time responding to your DUMB A$$!

:bigbye:

"pretty sure the intercooler isn't in the front bumper air to suck in cooler air like your statement above implies."

Are YOU KIDDING ME - you own a turbo car and write a statement like this !!!!!

:banghead:

Are you familiar with the principles of positive and negative airflow regarding car performance - ESPECIALLY TURBO CAR PERFORMANCE???!!!. The front bumper/hood area is the GREATEST source of POSITIVE (and cooler) AIRFLOW on ALL CARS!!!

Why do you think so many performance cars have hood scoops, naca ducts, and large front bumper or (forward facing ) side intakes??? - it's to CAPTURE THE POSITIVE (and cooler) airflow from this area (for performance purposes) - sheeeesh!!! - not to just look kewl !!!!!!

If you look at the air intake in the fender - it leads to the tires - there is NO way that air can be forced into that area at the same pressure as is the case with the bumper or hood - it's a NEGATIVE airflow area!!!!

That's why TURBO car manufacturers place the intercooler in the front bumper (on front mounted engines - 951, Audi S4, Subaru WRX, etc.) or place FORWARD FACING (towards the FRONT OF THE CAR WHERE THE BUMPER IS LOCATED) scoops on mid and rear engine turbo cars ( P-car 996 TT).

Have you actually taken the 951 front bumper apart - there is duct work designed to FORCE (via a ram air effect) COOLER OUTSIDE AIR INTO THE INTERCOOLER from the FRONT BUMPER, not the FENDER. The hole in the FENDER AREA that you reference IS A NEGATIVE AIRFLOW AREA; thus the airflow IS NOT SUFFICIENT TO MEET THE TOTAL INTAKE NEEDS OF A 951 , plus it's (the cooler air from the fender) MIXED WITH HOT ENGINE AIR (as it enters the K&N cone filter) WHICH IS NOT GOOD FOR TIMING and HORSEPOWER.

Unless you've done some DATA LOGGING (like i've done on my AUDI S4 2.7T biturbo), YOUR ASSUMPTIONS ARE MIS-ALIGNED. I'd love to see the IAT (Intake air temp) FROM THE HOLE IN THE FENDER AREA (to the K&N cone filter) that you reference VERSUS the Intercooler - because LOWER IATs (which the IC will produce) EQUAL MORE HP - ASK ANY REPUTABLE TURBO PERFORMANCE TUNER!


:bigbye:

Listen, caps-boy, stop the shouting. I think what Michael meant was that the way your post read, you stated or eluded to the fact that the intercooler sucked air in and transfered that air into the engine. You probably did not mean that, but that is the way your post read that he was speaking about. All of us know that it does cool the air by the air flowing over it, but that no air actually enters the system at that point. I don't think he deserved that reply, and the insults contained in it, from you.

Banned, good I can take my earplugs out now!

Yes, exactly what Tifo said. The intercooler sucks in nothing, it is a heat exchanger. The intake charge is drawn from the left fender area. Thanks for clarifying that for the banned guy.

wow....he got banned.

funny.