Looks vs. Performance ...... What do you think?
09-13-2005, 01:08 PM
#46
"Keep in mind, if someone does this, why makes it any different from the person who lowers his/her car?"
Nothing makes it any different.
I know that when i recently replaced my shocks with bilstiens that several posters on the 928 forum insisted i reset ride height to factory specs, and suspension geometry was the reason given.
As far as the ride quality of the ghetto hoopties, i don't think there's anyway a (just for instance) 99 Civic is going to drive smoothly with 20" rims....lol. I repoed a 01 caddy with 22" rims a few weeks ago, and it felt like i was driving a mack truck. Ick.
Nothing makes it any different.
I know that when i recently replaced my shocks with bilstiens that several posters on the 928 forum insisted i reset ride height to factory specs, and suspension geometry was the reason given.
As far as the ride quality of the ghetto hoopties, i don't think there's anyway a (just for instance) 99 Civic is going to drive smoothly with 20" rims....lol. I repoed a 01 caddy with 22" rims a few weeks ago, and it felt like i was driving a mack truck. Ick.
09-13-2005, 01:12 PM
#47
"Don't forget on teh 944 NA if you run 225/50 on 15" wheels rather than 16" you get the advantge of lowering gearing too."
225/50/16s and 225/50/15s both have the exact same overall height. Gearing would be unaffeceted.
Swtiching to a lower profile tire(ie 245/45/16) would lower the gear ratio a little bit though(0.7%).
225/50/16s and 225/50/15s both have the exact same overall height. Gearing would be unaffeceted.
Swtiching to a lower profile tire(ie 245/45/16) would lower the gear ratio a little bit though(0.7%).
09-13-2005, 01:19 PM
#48
Race Director
Originally Posted by m21sniper
"Don't forget on teh 944 NA if you run 225/50 on 15" wheels rather than 16" you get the advantge of lowering gearing too."
225/50/16s and 225/50/15s both have the exact same overall height. Gearing would be unaffeceted.
225/50/16s and 225/50/15s both have the exact same overall height. Gearing would be unaffeceted.
225/50 16 = 24.86" Diameter
225/50 15 = 23.86" Diameter ( 1" smaller diamter)
This is of course based on rim size aspect ratio and section width and every tire brand/type may be slightly different.
245/45 16 = 24.68" Diameter
actualy 225/50 16 and 245/45 16 are very close in diameter. That is why they were the stock sizes on the 944 Turbo S and the 928 S4.
09-13-2005, 01:21 PM
#49
Race Director
Originally Posted by m21sniper
As far as the ride quality of the ghetto hoopties, i don't think there's anyway a (just for instance) 99 Civic is going to drive smoothly with 20" rims....lol. I repoed a 01 caddy with 22" rims a few weeks ago, and it felt like i was driving a mack truck. Ick.
Then again, if you have to repo that ugly 944 with the 22" (or larger) wheels, I'm sure it will ride like doo-doo as well.
09-13-2005, 01:24 PM
#50
Race Director
Originally Posted by Travis - sflraver
The couple of lbs of unsprung weight is not as noticeable in a track situation where you are not looking at uneven road surfaces (street) or hard quick turns(autox). I went on an unsprung weight diet on my autox car and in that application you can notice any reduction with a distinct jump in suspension response time.
I was able to shed over 12 lbs per wheel (front) and it did wanders for the cars handling. Before the "diet" I was running 15" phone dials with 60 series tires. Again, track events where the surface is even and you do not ask the car to respond as dramatically, unsprung weight plays a smaller role. In every day driving and autox you will notice it much more.
I was able to shed over 12 lbs per wheel (front) and it did wanders for the cars handling. Before the "diet" I was running 15" phone dials with 60 series tires. Again, track events where the surface is even and you do not ask the car to respond as dramatically, unsprung weight plays a smaller role. In every day driving and autox you will notice it much more.
09-13-2005, 02:47 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by Geo
I put heavier wheels on my road car and went from 60 to 40 profile and it did not ride any differently.
09-13-2005, 03:18 PM
#52
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I have early offset 7" and 8" PD's that I use on the street, they are hideously heavy and they feel it. I use 15" Fuchs (not CC's) for autoX with 225/50 Victoracers. You can tell the difference in unsprung weight. I think the Fuchs with rubber are less than half the weight of the PD's with rubber. But man I like the way the 16" PD's look.
09-13-2005, 06:18 PM
#53
Nordschleife Master
This discussion has taken place so many times and yet there is still mis-information.
First I will be the first to tell you fuchs are not a light rim at 16" they weight alot (18lbs for 16x7 951.362.115.00) and (19lbs for 16x8 951.362.117.00) The PD 16" rims weight all of .5lbs more for the front and 1lbs for the rear! (18.5lbs for 16x7 951.362.114.00) and (20lbs for 16x8 951.362.116.00) So will 1lbs make all the diffrence in the world? No, simply because diffrent tires weight diffrent amounts and can easily offset that diffrence.
Then you can say well smaller fuchs are lighter but some cars cannot even run a smaller size then a 16" rims since the brakes will hit. Also if you run a smaller fuch and still want the same overall circumference for the wheel/tire then you need to remember that larger tires weight alot more then smaller tires. So your weight saving is offset by the fact that the tires weight more and with more tire is more sidewall flex and less responsive handling. You can however run the same size sidewall as you would on the 16"s and save weight and reduce final ratio but on the street this is worthless becuase A. It looks funny and B. It throws the Speedo off!
First I will be the first to tell you fuchs are not a light rim at 16" they weight alot (18lbs for 16x7 951.362.115.00) and (19lbs for 16x8 951.362.117.00) The PD 16" rims weight all of .5lbs more for the front and 1lbs for the rear! (18.5lbs for 16x7 951.362.114.00) and (20lbs for 16x8 951.362.116.00) So will 1lbs make all the diffrence in the world? No, simply because diffrent tires weight diffrent amounts and can easily offset that diffrence.
Then you can say well smaller fuchs are lighter but some cars cannot even run a smaller size then a 16" rims since the brakes will hit. Also if you run a smaller fuch and still want the same overall circumference for the wheel/tire then you need to remember that larger tires weight alot more then smaller tires. So your weight saving is offset by the fact that the tires weight more and with more tire is more sidewall flex and less responsive handling. You can however run the same size sidewall as you would on the 16"s and save weight and reduce final ratio but on the street this is worthless becuase A. It looks funny and B. It throws the Speedo off!
09-13-2005, 06:54 PM
#54
Originally Posted by Fishey
So will 1lbs make all the diffrence in the world? No, simply because diffrent tires weight diffrent amounts and can easily offset that diffrence.
Originally Posted by Fishey
Then you can say well smaller fuchs are lighter but some cars cannot even run a smaller size then a 16" rims since the brakes will hit. Also if you run a smaller fuch and still want the same overall circumference for the wheel/tire then you need to remember that larger tires weight alot more then smaller tires. So your weight saving is offset by the fact that the tires weight more and with more tire is more sidewall flex and less responsive handling. You can however run the same size sidewall as you would on the 16"s and save weight and reduce final ratio but on the street this is worthless becuase A. It looks funny and B. It throws the Speedo off!
Also, I have heard and read many times racers commenting on how they like the way higher profile tires transition in corners better than lower profile tires, though this may not be so much the case with newer tires. Since this is merely anecdotal I will defer to somebody like Joe for his opinion. But actually, in the case of the 225/50 15 versus 225/50 16 debate, the point is moot, since the aspect ratio (sidewall profile) is the same, on paper at least.
09-13-2005, 06:59 PM
#55
Race Director
Originally Posted by M758
Well a fellow 944-spec type car ran 16" vs 15" (225/50's) and on one track was 2 seconds faster on 15" wheels. I never saw him run 16" ever again.
the 18's are performance hit on the street and track. On the street performance is not really a big deal however.
BTW... for what you will spend on wheels and tires you can get 944-spec type suspension.
the 18's are performance hit on the street and track. On the street performance is not really a big deal however.
BTW... for what you will spend on wheels and tires you can get 944-spec type suspension.
I said this in post #2 of this thread...
09-13-2005, 07:35 PM
#56
Three Wheelin'
09-13-2005, 07:54 PM
#58
"Wrong..
225/50 16 = 24.86" Diameter
225/50 15 = 23.86" Diameter ( 1" smaller diamter)
This is of course based on rim size aspect ratio and section width and every tire brand/type may be slightly different.
245/45 16 = 24.68" Diameter"
Yeah, whoops, my bad. I forgot about the rim dia. difference, lol.
"actualy 225/50 16 and 245/45 16 are very close in diameter. That is why they were the stock sizes on the 944 Turbo S and the 928 S4."
The 245/16 is 0.7% smaller in dia according to the miata tire size calculator. Very close as you say, that's why i replaced my stock 225/50/16s with them.
225/50 16 = 24.86" Diameter
225/50 15 = 23.86" Diameter ( 1" smaller diamter)
This is of course based on rim size aspect ratio and section width and every tire brand/type may be slightly different.
245/45 16 = 24.68" Diameter"
Yeah, whoops, my bad. I forgot about the rim dia. difference, lol.
"actualy 225/50 16 and 245/45 16 are very close in diameter. That is why they were the stock sizes on the 944 Turbo S and the 928 S4."
The 245/16 is 0.7% smaller in dia according to the miata tire size calculator. Very close as you say, that's why i replaced my stock 225/50/16s with them.
09-13-2005, 08:40 PM
#59
Three Wheelin'
Ted- Where can I get them cheaper for a wheel & good tire package?
Also, sorry for my ignorance but how do "quote" something someone else says?
Thanks,
Kevin
Also, sorry for my ignorance but how do "quote" something someone else says?
Thanks,
Kevin
09-13-2005, 08:45 PM
#60
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Kevin, there should be a quote button in every post. Click that button and it will take you into the reply page, only with the quote already in the box. (The quote button looks like this: " ")
Honestly, just keep an eye out on the forum and in the rennlist classifieds. You can find a genuine set of wheels and tires for much less than that all day long! (albeit used, but genuine Porsche)
Honestly, just keep an eye out on the forum and in the rennlist classifieds. You can find a genuine set of wheels and tires for much less than that all day long! (albeit used, but genuine Porsche)