Sweet 944

Looking for some opinions, advise...

My buddy has just removed a full set (front & rear) Bilstein - TRG Turbo Cup Coil-overs from his 86' 951 race car (he is upgrading) & has given the hole set to me.
I have a 87' 944na stock & I want to know if I am going to have any issues with install, ride, etc.

The front springs are 500# and the rears are 350#
Is this set-up ok for the street, too soft, too hard?

I have no idea what size sway bars are in the car.. (going to start turning wrenches tonight)
What is a good size to compliment these coil-overs?

Should I replace the strut mounts or will stock be fine?

I don't drive the car a whole lot.. so if it rides a little stiff no big deal.. I know I have to replace the shocks & struts so the timing is great as long as this FREEBEE.... will work.

Any opinions or advise would be greatly appreciated.

Peace....

special tool

These are very high quality shocks. You can have them revalved to exactly suit your springs if you don't like the stiff ones. I drive with 400/250 and stock torsion bars. Mine have been valved to suit the springs. I like them.
The high speed damping is very good.

Skip

They will fit your car fine - 86 951 uses the same type parts as your 87 944. Not really a street ride though - normally 300-350 front is most you want for street. Depends on personality.

You'll want some bigger sways, for sure. 968 M030 type (30mm front, 19mm adjustable rear) or Weltmeister solid adjustables (28mm, 22mm) or Tarett lightweight adjustables (28mm, 22mm). If you want to keep it on the cheap, look for used 26.8mm front and either 16 or 18mm rear (both fixed).

With that much spring, you'll want to upgrade the strut mounts. KLA is least expensive way to go, but offers no adjustment. Since you are using height adjustable struts, you can use our type (Ground Control) as well as Racer's Edge.

Good Luck!

mroberts

I've got a 16mm solid rear you can have pretty cheap. You'll need drop links though.

Serge944

Honestly, I think itll be unbearable for a street car. Such high spring rates, although making the car corner incredibly flat, will only be a detriment for street driving.

Do you plan on doing track days or some serious autocrossing? If not, sell these and get something a little more suitable for the street. Many disagree with me, but I'm a firm believer in close to stock springrates for the street.

On another note, Weltmeister or Tarett swaybars will completely TRANSFORM your car.

Did someone say droplinks?

AJBERB

I would have to agree with Serge. The spring rates are way too high for street use. That is if you want any kind of soft ride. I have an 83 setup for the track with high spring rates and fat swaybars. It is amazing how much smoother the track is compared to the street.

If you are just talking coil overs front and rear, swap them out and see how it rides. This is a pretty easy change and could be done in an evening. Just be sure to mark the front OEM struts in case you want to put them back in. That way you won't need to align it. You will need to get an alignment if you drop in the TRG struts, but you should be able to get close from the orignal setting. Close enough to check the ride quality.

Either way, the price is right and you can't go wrong.

ninefiveone

Dampers play as much, if not more, of a role in how stiff a car rides.

But regardless, in this case we're talking about Bilsteins that are valved for a certain spring rate. There's some room for lighter or stiffer rates but not a whole lot.

Going to anything like a stock spring rate will turn out badly. The car will ride extremely stiffly because of the dampers but lean just as much as a stock car.

Sweet 944

Hey guys thanks for the info.. I am considering replacing the springs with softer ones (maybe 350 front & 200 rear) and having them re-valved to match the springs..

One question... The 951, that this set-up is coming out of, is an 89 not an 86 like I orignally posted.. Will this make a difference in the fit?

Serge944

It will bolt right up. Btw, look into effective rates of the rear springs. A 350/200# combo is greatly unbalanced even if used with torsion bars. Generally, you want effective spring rates to be equal front and rear.

The effective rate of the rears is about .6. Therefore, to match the 350# fronts (assuming you have 123# torsion bars (23.5mm)) you will need 375-400# rear springs.

To be honest, I think you have it mixed up. I can almost put money that its actually 350# front, and 500# rear on the coilovers youre getting. Otherwise, it makes no sense to me and really is a terrible spring choice for these cars.

tifosiman

Serge is right on the money.

Something else to consider here (if someone else mentioned it and I missed it, I apologize): The rear coil-overs are going to raise the rear of your car somewhat, even with the eccentric turned down all the way it will be noticable. To get the most out of your new parts, you may want to consider re-indexing your t-bars or having a shop do it for you.

Oddjob

Ive got the Turbo Cup bilsteins in my club race cars, and using 500 lb/in springs in front. Its not for the street, even with street tires on 16" whls.

Depending on the application, 350 lb/in springs in the rear is not bad if used with the torsion bars. The 1:1 effective rate ratio front to rear does not hold true at the higher springs rates. If you even approach a 1:1 ratio with 500 lb/in front springs, the car will be absolutely uncontrollable on a track due to oversteer (even with an n/a). Ive found that something closer to a 1.3 to 1.5:1 is a much better ratio to use with the higher spring rates (over 400 lb/in front). Again, this is for high speed track cars. Street cars and autocross cars can be setup and driven with a lot more oversteer.

Sweet 944

Is this set-up in a race or street car?
I'm thinking about useing softer springs & stay with the stock Torsion bar. I am going to upgrade my sway bars also..

Sweet 944

I might do a few track days but it is not a priority. I am looking to set this car up for the street with great handling as there isn't much in the way of horsepower to be gained from an NA (or so i'm told).

The area I live in is full of great twisties so that is the aspect of the car I want to exploit.

I hope to use these shocks/struts with softer springs, have them revalved and some better sway bars. Maybe camber plates and a strut bar but that is it..

I have heard many combo suggestions and frankly the technical info is way over my head, as far as ratio's and stuff I am lost...

The local porsche guru (also works with pro cup car team) has suggested 350# up front, 200# on rear and sways - 30mm(F) and 19mm (R) but then he says I could run the rears without springs...

Anyone with a STREET set-up have some advise for spring/sway rates?

Sweet 944

The guy who I'm getting them from said they were 550# front & 350# rear. the springs are very clean & have all of the markings on them.
Is there a number on the spring that will tell me the weight?

Skip

you need the spring on the rear - the sways are right, but you need the spring. IMHO, of course.

My opinion is that anything over 350 on the street is unfriendly. With mine at 400, it's not much fun over expansion joints in the viaducts.