944S vs. 944
#17
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Originally Posted by special tool
The S transaxle is nothing like the S2. The S2 has stronger 1st and 2nd and R&P like the turbo - the S does not.
- the stronger 1st and 2nd were on the turbo S transmission - and this was achieved by bead blasting the gears, and not using a different part.
- the S has the same gear ratio as the 8-v NA cars, but the differential housing and the ring and pinion are different from the NA 8-v 2.5.
- I think it is more correct to say the S R&P are like the turbo R&P (in strength, not ratio), but the S2 R&P is similar in strength (and the ratio was an option on) the turbo S trans. That is conjecture on my point, though, but would also justify your conjecture.
Originally Posted by WKD 4818.21 30-02a
With the exception of a few modifications in its design and as regards repair the 083 D transmission is the same as the 016 R Turbo transmission.
The most important modifications are:
- no transmission-oil pump is available
- final drive ratio increased to 9 : 35
- transmission casing with machined recess for ring gear
- design distance "Ro" 58.15mm
The most important modifications are:
- no transmission-oil pump is available
- final drive ratio increased to 9 : 35
- transmission casing with machined recess for ring gear
- design distance "Ro" 58.15mm
Originally Posted by WKD 4818.21 30-02b
Transmission 083 F is the same in design and repairing procedures as the 944 S transmission 083 D, except for a few deviations.
Most important deviations:
- Longer 5th gear 36 : 28 i = 0.778
- Final drive ration 8 : 31 = 3.875
- Design distance "Ro" =59.65 mm
- Stronger differential
Most important deviations:
- Longer 5th gear 36 : 28 i = 0.778
- Final drive ration 8 : 31 = 3.875
- Design distance "Ro" =59.65 mm
- Stronger differential
Anyhow, we should all have the 924 turbo transaxle (which was stronger than any of the Audi-based 944 transaxles, S/S2/turbo/turboS).
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Originally Posted by snyper238
i think i might try a 968 swap.
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#18
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Dude -I know what transmission you are talking about.
I am not speculating, I am telling you the way these transmissions are.
The 944S tansmission is NOTHING like the 944S2 transmission. N O T H I N G.
It is not "conjecture" - you are spreading misinformation.
I am not speculating, I am telling you the way these transmissions are.
The 944S tansmission is NOTHING like the 944S2 transmission. N O T H I N G.
It is not "conjecture" - you are spreading misinformation.
Last edited by special tool; 07-17-2005 at 03:46 PM.
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Other than the one point - which I qualified, and also said was conjecture - I was just copying or quoting from Porsche's documentation - which, I admit (and admitted) has errors and is not perfect.
My apologies for spreading misinformation.
My apologies for spreading misinformation.
#20
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I have read somewhere that the S trans is stronger (more teeth on the pinion gear?) and I suppose if it wasn't they'd be dropping dead faster than the NA trans's are.
-Joel.
-Joel.
#23
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To compare the transimissions, all the info you need on this is in the factory manual sets, in the transmission section and in the turbo supplement. It explains the differences in components and then it can also be checked in PET by referencing the part numbers to the case codes.
944S Trans: AGP and AGR codes (w/o LSD and w/ LSD)
944 Turbo Trans: 5P (w/ cooler), 5R (cooler and LSD), UY (standard), 9U (no cooler, LSD)
944 Turbo S Trans: AOR
944S2: AOS, AOT (w/o LSD and w/ LSD)
The cases are the same for the 944S, S2, Turbo and Turbo S. The 944 n/a has a different case number than these others (probably some internal machining differences)
The gear carrier (black cast iron section of the trans) is the same for the 944S, S2, Turbo, and Turbo S. The 944 n/a has a different part number than the others.
The input shafts for the 944S and 944 Turbo are the same part. The Turbo S (AOR) has a different input shaft (this is the part with the extra hardening process performed on the 1st and 2nd gear teeth). The S2 transmission came with the same input shaft as the Turbo S, and all previous input shafts (for the 944S and Turbo) supercede to the AOR input shaft. So if you went to a dealer today and bought a new input shaft, the only one still available for an S, S2, Turbo, Turbo S is the one with the hardened 1st and 2nd gear teeth. But, Ive never heard of anyone ripping the teeth off the input shaft in an S or an early Turbo, so Im not certain how critical the hardening is.
The big difference is this: The 944 n/a and 944S use the same ratio Ring and Pinion (9:35), but they are not the same part. The S ring and pinion may be stronger than the 944 n/a but it is not as strong as the Turbo or S2 ring and pinion and should not be used in a higher hp/torque application (like being put in a turbo) – it will break. The S2 Ring and Pinion (8:31) is likely as strong and can handle as much torque and power as the Turbo (8:27) R/P.
The gears for a 944S, S2, Turbo, and Turbo S are all identical for 1st – 4th. The S2 has a different 5th gear – its slightly taller than the other cars to give it a higher top end with the shorter R/P.
944S Trans: AGP and AGR codes (w/o LSD and w/ LSD)
944 Turbo Trans: 5P (w/ cooler), 5R (cooler and LSD), UY (standard), 9U (no cooler, LSD)
944 Turbo S Trans: AOR
944S2: AOS, AOT (w/o LSD and w/ LSD)
The cases are the same for the 944S, S2, Turbo and Turbo S. The 944 n/a has a different case number than these others (probably some internal machining differences)
The gear carrier (black cast iron section of the trans) is the same for the 944S, S2, Turbo, and Turbo S. The 944 n/a has a different part number than the others.
The input shafts for the 944S and 944 Turbo are the same part. The Turbo S (AOR) has a different input shaft (this is the part with the extra hardening process performed on the 1st and 2nd gear teeth). The S2 transmission came with the same input shaft as the Turbo S, and all previous input shafts (for the 944S and Turbo) supercede to the AOR input shaft. So if you went to a dealer today and bought a new input shaft, the only one still available for an S, S2, Turbo, Turbo S is the one with the hardened 1st and 2nd gear teeth. But, Ive never heard of anyone ripping the teeth off the input shaft in an S or an early Turbo, so Im not certain how critical the hardening is.
The big difference is this: The 944 n/a and 944S use the same ratio Ring and Pinion (9:35), but they are not the same part. The S ring and pinion may be stronger than the 944 n/a but it is not as strong as the Turbo or S2 ring and pinion and should not be used in a higher hp/torque application (like being put in a turbo) – it will break. The S2 Ring and Pinion (8:31) is likely as strong and can handle as much torque and power as the Turbo (8:27) R/P.
The gears for a 944S, S2, Turbo, and Turbo S are all identical for 1st – 4th. The S2 has a different 5th gear – its slightly taller than the other cars to give it a higher top end with the shorter R/P.
#24
Burning Brakes
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Why would you spend so much time, money, and effort chasing a nominal amount of speed? People complain about turbo lag, but the 16 valve feels like a dead fish until you hit 4000 rpm, an rpm that would have a turbo spooling in no time.
Nothing against the 944S, I had one and it was extremely fun to drive--by a large margin better than an 8 valve. It also sounds much nicer than any 8 valve. Seems like a waste to modify your motor to take a 16 valve head....in the least you might as well buy the entire 16v motor, from a pragmatist's perspective at least.
My S tranny had horrible bearing noise from somewhere on the output shaft, probably could liken it to a chainsaw, with just 80k on the car and fairly clean oil when drained. Aside from the power deficiency that is the main reason I sold the car.
Nothing against the 944S, I had one and it was extremely fun to drive--by a large margin better than an 8 valve. It also sounds much nicer than any 8 valve. Seems like a waste to modify your motor to take a 16 valve head....in the least you might as well buy the entire 16v motor, from a pragmatist's perspective at least.
My S tranny had horrible bearing noise from somewhere on the output shaft, probably could liken it to a chainsaw, with just 80k on the car and fairly clean oil when drained. Aside from the power deficiency that is the main reason I sold the car.