993944S2

Hi All;

Can anyone point me to any information on the club sport option for the 944 S2?

Thanks;

Don Ehinger

The DareDevil

Hi Don,

What information are you looking for? (Specifically)

993944S2

I'm looking for just about any information. I am looking for a car for PCA club racing and there is a 944S2 CS on ebay. I'd like to educate myself so I can ask the seller some specific questions.
What was different about the engine, suspension, body work, chassis, etc. If I look at the car I want to know what is illegal/legal for PCA.

Thanks;

Don

Oddjob

Porsche Motorsport North America imported 7 (I believe) 944S2 Club Sports to the US in 1991 to be eligible for the IMSA Firestone Firehawk race series. There was one advertised for sale in the Rennlist classified race cars, it was the last entry listed - not sure if it is still posted.

Various Firehawk race teams (like Kelly Moss, Sandrich, Team Matthew, etc) also converted street 944S2s to the full Club Sport specs using mostly factory parts. There are probably more of these converted Firehawk S2s around, than the original factory Club Sports.

The engines were basically stock (although were probably blue printed and hand built at the Porsche race shop - not the production assembly plant) and used a different chip. Factory I think rated them at 225bhp, but I would guess that they might be a little hotter than that. Have to run race gas in them with the ignition advance.

My guess is that the transmission is the stock 944S2 box, with LSD, no cooler, standard 1-4th ratios, standard R/P, and a short 5th gear (which would be the 944T 5th gear set).

They were delete optioned like the Turbo Cup and US Spec Turbo Escort cars - so no sun roof, no AC, no power steering, manual window cranks, no sound deadening, no under coating. Fiberglass hood, black plastic manual door mirrors, strut tower brace with welded in brackets, M030 front brakes, turbo cup sway bars (30mm front, 21mm adj rear), koni double adjustable suspension, and the turbo cup springs (front and rear coilovers). They would have come with the factory Matter cage, but not sure it was installed at the factory or after importation by PMNA, dealers, or the purchaser (race team).

The big questions with a car advertised as a Club Sport: is it one of the factory originals or a firehawk conversion, has it been raced, what was its history (who raced it), was it ever wrecked, what has been upgraded or changed from the original setup?

Value is probably in the $30k upto maybe $40k range.

kgeraci

Is having option codes 030 and 220 the same as the Club Sport models you are referring to or are you speaking of those cars specifically made for racing? I don't think having those two option codes necessarily makes them a Club Sport Car, nothwithstanding that 030 was the "Club Sport Package". And/Or for my knowledge, is the 1989+ model of the 944S2 available with the option codes 030 and 220?

993944S2

I'm not sure. The car I was interested in was said to be a factory club sport car. That would be interesting to own. However, the car seems to have some stories. It was retubbed at some time and the ebay lister was not very interested in answering many questions.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Oddjob

From the picture that shows it running on the track w/ the BMW, it looks like it has the Team Matthew logo on the hood (the green decal).

That is not one of the factory Club Sports. It was a street car built up for the Firehawk series. It also looks like it was never fully upgraded to the '91 Club Sport specs. Still has what looks to be the basic M030 sport suspension, not the double adjustable Konis w/ rear coilover springs and it doesnt have the turbo cup/club sport front springs either. It does not have a fiberglass hood and it does not have the factory type strut tower brace.

I know of two cars in PCA club racing that are ex-Kelly Moss firehawk cars. And they were completely upgraded to factory Club Sport Specs and beyond for the firehawk series. Im a little surprised to see this car that is claimed to have been raced through '95, still retains the early suspension from '89-90.

Option M030 is just the sport suspension option and 220 is LSD - not the same as the Factory Club Sport cars. And yes, the M030 package was available for the 89 S2, and 220 was a separate option.

MTM

The rears look like basic M030, but the fronts look double adjustable Konis & Turbo Cup springs to me. The wire is thicker at the top and the diameter of the coil is larger too.

Oddjob

I will admit that there is no way to tell if the front struts are double adj or single, from the picture, since the jounce adjustment **** is on the bottom of the strut body (can barely even see the **** in your pic of the dismounted struts).

But those front springs sure look like the stock M030 springs to me and not the same as the cup springs in your pic. I dont see the change in wire diameter. The tapered OD is normal for M030 springs. And look at the spacing between the lower/bottom coils - the M030 springs have about the same coil spacing, while the cups spring coils are closer together at the bottom and actually bind when the weight of the car is on them.

gman1868

If you look at the photo of the car, you'll notice the outline of a sunroof on it. As far as I know the Firehawk cars did not have a sunroof.

I'd be very cautious about the car....

Mongo

EDITED

Sorry guys I didn't see the sunroof, I was paying attention to the underbody of the car. M637 cars have sunroof deletes and no undercoating. Those 2 features are probably the easiest that set the car apart from other rigid chassis 944s. This is most likely a street car with the removal of the rubberized undercoating.

MTM

Yeah, Oddjob, I can see that you are right. The coils on that ebay car do indeed look much more evenly spaced, the wire thickness looks almost the same top and bottom, and it looks like the coil diameter is much larger overall as well.

993944S2

The description of the car does say it was retubbed in 2000.
"Chassis retubed in 2000 with customized Autopower roll cage. "

That may take into account the undercoating and the sun roof. I guess they could have migrated the parts from an original CS to the new tub. Now what do you call it?

Don

Oddjob

Since it was retubbed in 2000 and its pro race history is 1989-1995, that may indicate a couple things:

1) Absolutely, it was Never a factory club sport, since those were only made in 1991. So it was originally an 89 street car conversion, most likely converted by the original owner/race team for the Firehawk series. It may have originally been a sunroof delete option car (special order), since the ad says that the original roof w/o sunroof is available as a spare part from the original tub....

2) My guess is it must have been wrecked pretty hard running in SCCA or some similiar club event by a non-professional owner (since its pro career was over in '95) in 2000 or slightly before. So who ever did the re-tub was not a pro team and would likely not have access to original Club Sport/cup parts (they were mostly all gone by 2000), so its likely that it would not have been correctly/completely returned to its former race specs or factory club sport specs.

I would call it a race/track prepped 944S2. Im not sure how it would be classified by PCA. For E class, you have to have a full interior, but otherwise you may be able to get away with running it as a Firehawk car.