N/A engine questions
06-06-2005, 10:46 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by Danno
"Just to list again what we did to the engine
- removed engine
- installed new clutch
- installed new motors mounts
- installed new rod bearings and rod nuts.
- installed new oil pan gasket
- Installed new front crank oil drive sleeve as well as front crank seal and o ring. "
When you installed the new clutch, did you properly space the speed/ref. sensors away from the flywheel? Did you remember to put the figure-8 spacer under the speed-sensor?
- removed engine
- installed new clutch
- installed new motors mounts
- installed new rod bearings and rod nuts.
- installed new oil pan gasket
- Installed new front crank oil drive sleeve as well as front crank seal and o ring. "
When you installed the new clutch, did you properly space the speed/ref. sensors away from the flywheel? Did you remember to put the figure-8 spacer under the speed-sensor?
BTW i just pulled all the plugs, it still will not turn. It has to be contact with something. Thank you everyone for your help thus far
06-06-2005, 11:20 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Danno
When you installed the new clutch, did you properly space the speed/ref. sensors away from the flywheel? Did you remember to put the figure-8 spacer under the speed-sensor?
06-06-2005, 11:51 PM
#34
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"Zero was the one who reinstalled the sensors on that end. I will ask him when he gets here. If done improperly what would that do?"
Well... it may be OK if it came out without the spacer... What happens is when people lose that figure-8 spacer when they re-install is that the speed-sensor would sit too low and rubs on the ring-gear. They then raise the bracket so that it won't rub, but then this will put the ref-sensor too far away from its trigger, leading to sporadic failures, or no starts. Someone probably raised the trigger for the ref-sensor to compenstate on that car. Make sure it's hot hitting the sensor.
What about the distributor and rotor? Make sure there's TWO small bolts holding the rotor on. They're 180-degrees apart from each other, so it's easy to miss the 2nd one.
The other thing to check is all of the pressure-plate bolts. There's three holes on the bell-housing that'll let you access the pressure-plate bolts. Check three, rotate the engine and check the next three, until you've done all the bolts.
Simplest way to verify that it's not the valves hitting the pistons is to just pull the cam-tower. Then spin the engine around and see if it contacts anything...
Well... it may be OK if it came out without the spacer... What happens is when people lose that figure-8 spacer when they re-install is that the speed-sensor would sit too low and rubs on the ring-gear. They then raise the bracket so that it won't rub, but then this will put the ref-sensor too far away from its trigger, leading to sporadic failures, or no starts. Someone probably raised the trigger for the ref-sensor to compenstate on that car. Make sure it's hot hitting the sensor.
What about the distributor and rotor? Make sure there's TWO small bolts holding the rotor on. They're 180-degrees apart from each other, so it's easy to miss the 2nd one.
The other thing to check is all of the pressure-plate bolts. There's three holes on the bell-housing that'll let you access the pressure-plate bolts. Check three, rotate the engine and check the next three, until you've done all the bolts.
Simplest way to verify that it's not the valves hitting the pistons is to just pull the cam-tower. Then spin the engine around and see if it contacts anything...
06-06-2005, 11:59 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Danno
"Zero was the one who reinstalled the sensors on that end. I will ask him when he gets here. If done improperly what would that do?"
Well... it may be OK if it came out without the spacer... What happens is when people lose that figure-8 spacer when they re-install is that the speed-sensor would sit too low and rubs on the ring-gear. They then raise the bracket so that it won't rub, but then this will put the ref-sensor too far away from its trigger, leading to sporadic failures, or no starts. Someone probably raised the trigger for the ref-sensor to compenstate on that car. Make sure it's hot hitting the sensor.
What about the distributor and rotor? Make sure there's TWO small bolts holding the rotor on. They're 180-degrees apart from each other, so it's easy to miss the 2nd one.
The other thing to check is all of the pressure-plate bolts. There's three holes on the bell-housing that'll let you access the pressure-plate bolts. Check three, rotate the engine and check the next three, until you've done all the bolts.
Simplest way to verify that it's not the valves hitting the pistons is to just pull the cam-tower. Then spin the engine around and see if it contacts anything...
Well... it may be OK if it came out without the spacer... What happens is when people lose that figure-8 spacer when they re-install is that the speed-sensor would sit too low and rubs on the ring-gear. They then raise the bracket so that it won't rub, but then this will put the ref-sensor too far away from its trigger, leading to sporadic failures, or no starts. Someone probably raised the trigger for the ref-sensor to compenstate on that car. Make sure it's hot hitting the sensor.
What about the distributor and rotor? Make sure there's TWO small bolts holding the rotor on. They're 180-degrees apart from each other, so it's easy to miss the 2nd one.
The other thing to check is all of the pressure-plate bolts. There's three holes on the bell-housing that'll let you access the pressure-plate bolts. Check three, rotate the engine and check the next three, until you've done all the bolts.
Simplest way to verify that it's not the valves hitting the pistons is to just pull the cam-tower. Then spin the engine around and see if it contacts anything...
The distributor cap and rotor are not yet installed so thats out of the equation.
I never thought of just pulling the Cam tower, thats a quick job that will give me the answer im looking for should all these other suggestions not work.
It seems like were getting close to the solution now, thanks Danno.
06-07-2005, 05:04 PM
#36
Race Car
Thread Starter
Okie dokie, time for the person who did some of the things that are in question to hop in here 
There was no spacer on either of the speed or reference sensors. I found this odd, since my 951, and my 86 both had one, but I couldn't really find the reason for it being there in the first place, so I figured my cars were the weird ones, since I've also seen an 84 without it that ran just fine.
I gapped the speed sensor, and it does not touch the ring gear, so I am about 80% certain that we can't be hitting a peg on the flywheel with the reference sensor, however I will most definately try moving the bracket up a bit just incase. If we have no success with this, I shall scratch my head for a while, and go from there I suppose it's entirely possible somebody in the past has raised the pegs on the flywheel or something similar, given the funny electrical stuff I found on the DME temp sensor.
It sounds like the cam tower may be coming off, and if it comes off, I'm afraid to say the head might have to come off too, which really isn't what I nor Redlyne_mr2 want. However, if it comes down to it, I think we should pull it.
I suppose there is a chance it could be the valves, but I am confused, since we can rotate the cam about 30* before you feel it stop.
I am 100% sure the pressure plate bolts are just fine. I've seen just about all of them go by while I was under the car too, and they were all fully tightened down, just as I left them
The rotor was removed via the 8mm-head bolt, and is sitting on a table near the car, all of the belt covers are presently off, since the timing belts were just re-installed, and have not been correctly tensioned yet.
There was no spacer on either of the speed or reference sensors. I found this odd, since my 951, and my 86 both had one, but I couldn't really find the reason for it being there in the first place, so I figured my cars were the weird ones, since I've also seen an 84 without it that ran just fine.
I gapped the speed sensor, and it does not touch the ring gear, so I am about 80% certain that we can't be hitting a peg on the flywheel with the reference sensor, however I will most definately try moving the bracket up a bit just incase. If we have no success with this, I shall scratch my head for a while, and go from there
I suppose it's entirely possible somebody in the past has raised the pegs on the flywheel or something similar, given the funny electrical stuff I found on the DME temp sensor.It sounds like the cam tower may be coming off, and if it comes off, I'm afraid to say the head might have to come off too, which really isn't what I nor Redlyne_mr2 want. However, if it comes down to it, I think we should pull it.
I suppose there is a chance it could be the valves, but I am confused, since we can rotate the cam about 30* before you feel it stop.
I am 100% sure the pressure plate bolts are just fine. I've seen just about all of them go by while I was under the car too, and they were all fully tightened down, just as I left them
The rotor was removed via the 8mm-head bolt, and is sitting on a table near the car, all of the belt covers are presently off, since the timing belts were just re-installed, and have not been correctly tensioned yet.
06-07-2005, 10:52 PM
#37
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Update:
OK got the speed ref sensors out of the way. It still did the same thing. Pulled the cam tower ahhh we can now crank the engine all the way around. The problem is still there though. When it reaches TDC in either direction there is resistance to get it past there. Not as much resistance as before but around 50ft/lbs. Im not sure if removing the cam tower and it becoming easier was just a coincidence or if this is all somehow related. Any feedback is appreaciated at this point. We are both sort of lost.
OK got the speed ref sensors out of the way. It still did the same thing. Pulled the cam tower ahhh we can now crank the engine all the way around. The problem is still there though. When it reaches TDC in either direction there is resistance to get it past there. Not as much resistance as before but around 50ft/lbs. Im not sure if removing the cam tower and it becoming easier was just a coincidence or if this is all somehow related. Any feedback is appreaciated at this point. We are both sort of lost.
06-07-2005, 11:15 PM
#38
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was the timing belt off when you were attempting to turn it. If so you were contacting the valves. With the cam box off, there will be trapped compression/vaccume with all the valves closed giving some resistance. good luck
06-07-2005, 11:22 PM
#39
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When the cam tower was on we always had the timing belt on when we turned it. All sparkplugs are out so there is no compression. You guys were talking about pulling the head. Can I ask what that might reveal?
06-08-2005, 12:55 AM
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Zero and I are starting to think that somehow a vlave may have been bent and thats what is causing the resistance. Is it worth it at this point to pull the head since we have found nothing up to this point?
06-08-2005, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 944CS
my engine has a lot of resistance right before tdc, spins really freely right after tdc...nothing is wrong with it
06-08-2005, 03:00 PM
#45
Race Car
Thread Starter
I don't know if pulling the intake manifold will tell us too much. You can see the valves, but what if it was an exhaust valve that was bent?
If we pull the intake, and see nothing, we would still need to pull the head, to see if the exhaust valves are bent, since it's pretty tough to see them with the head on, and engine in the car, and if we pull the intake, and see a bent valve, the head needs to come off to fix it.
944CS, you say that yours has a lot of resistance right before TDC, is this with the plugs out?
I know in my 951, if I pull all 4 plugs, it turns all the way around, under about 10lb/ft of torque. Redlyne_mr2's engine turns from 5* ADTC to 5* BTDC under very little torque, then takes ~50lb/ft to get to to 'pop' past TDC. I have tried, and tried again to get it to stay at TDC with no success at all. It just jams up right before it, and as you gradually apply more pressure, it will all of a sudden jump past TDC, and continue turning normally. It does this both when pistons 1/4 are approaching TDC and when pistons 2/3 are approaching TDC.
I took a peek inside the combustion chambers, thinking I might be able to see a mark from a valve hitting a piston, or something like that. Until I realized that the marks would be very near the front/rear edges of the piston, and be rather difficult to see through the spark plug hole. I did however notice that the center of each piston was very clean, where the edges had carbon buildup on them. I had never seen this before, all of my pistons were evenly buried in soot. Is this because his engine runs better than mine have? (i.e. is this normal?)
If we pull the intake, and see nothing, we would still need to pull the head, to see if the exhaust valves are bent, since it's pretty tough to see them with the head on, and engine in the car, and if we pull the intake, and see a bent valve, the head needs to come off to fix it.
944CS, you say that yours has a lot of resistance right before TDC, is this with the plugs out?
I know in my 951, if I pull all 4 plugs, it turns all the way around, under about 10lb/ft of torque. Redlyne_mr2's engine turns from 5* ADTC to 5* BTDC under very little torque, then takes ~50lb/ft to get to to 'pop' past TDC. I have tried, and tried again to get it to stay at TDC with no success at all. It just jams up right before it, and as you gradually apply more pressure, it will all of a sudden jump past TDC, and continue turning normally. It does this both when pistons 1/4 are approaching TDC and when pistons 2/3 are approaching TDC.
I took a peek inside the combustion chambers, thinking I might be able to see a mark from a valve hitting a piston, or something like that. Until I realized that the marks would be very near the front/rear edges of the piston, and be rather difficult to see through the spark plug hole. I did however notice that the center of each piston was very clean, where the edges had carbon buildup on them. I had never seen this before, all of my pistons were evenly buried in soot. Is this because his engine runs better than mine have? (i.e. is this normal?)