Update: Lots of smoke - What the heck is the problem here?
04-22-2005, 03:42 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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Update: Lots of smoke - What the heck is the problem here?
Well as some of you may remember reading, my 944 billowed white smoke out the back at 5500 rpm. A minute later I parked it, restarted it and saw a puff of white smoke come out of the exhaust pipe. Since then I have seen no more smoke. Anyways, I took the car to a Porsche specialist and had them check it over. The oil cooler is leaking a little bit of coolant externally, but evidently per the 944 'specialist' there is no mixing of oil/coolant. The oil on the dipstick looks clean so I can understand that, and they said that the milk shake effect under the oil filler cap is normal from condensation. I just called another Porsche shop and they verified that. Thing is, i've never seen it there to that degree before. Maybe I just wasn't looking for it the few times i've taken the filler cap off, but I think I would have noticed a bunch of white goo chillin' there.
So now my question is, if there is no oil/coolant mixture, what caused this huge white smoke screen out the back? They pulled a plug and looked into the cylinder with some kind of tool that magnifies the cylinder and checked for mixing that way, said it looked ok. I don't really know where to go from here. I still don't feel satisfied with the explanations because they kind of left the statements open ended by saying basically "well it could be the head gasket, and it has the symptoms of a head gasket, but we can't see it at this time". Also, it didn't seem like they spent much time or did much to diagnose the problem.
Any ideas or suggestions? I'll probably take it to another shop for a second opinion.
Thanks for the help!!
___________
Pat
86 944
So now my question is, if there is no oil/coolant mixture, what caused this huge white smoke screen out the back? They pulled a plug and looked into the cylinder with some kind of tool that magnifies the cylinder and checked for mixing that way, said it looked ok. I don't really know where to go from here. I still don't feel satisfied with the explanations because they kind of left the statements open ended by saying basically "well it could be the head gasket, and it has the symptoms of a head gasket, but we can't see it at this time". Also, it didn't seem like they spent much time or did much to diagnose the problem.
Any ideas or suggestions? I'll probably take it to another shop for a second opinion.
Thanks for the help!!
___________
Pat
86 944
04-22-2005, 04:05 PM
#3
Drifting
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Yuk
You may not see the mix in the cylinder if the mixing isnt occuring there (usually failed gasket).
On these cars though, its usually a sign of a failed oil cooler gasket. Cheap enough from www.Paragon-products.com , and you'll need to do a full fluid flush. Don't forget a new filter, and empty the water through the bottom rad hose, not the bleed screw. (Theyre plastic, 20 years old, and brittle!). Depending on the year of car too, you'll need a relief valve aligning tool (again pretty cheap from paragon). A day's work, and around $100 in material, and you're good to go.
There are full details on www.clarks-garage.com
I think I'd rethink your choice of "specialist".
You may not see the mix in the cylinder if the mixing isnt occuring there (usually failed gasket).
On these cars though, its usually a sign of a failed oil cooler gasket. Cheap enough from www.Paragon-products.com , and you'll need to do a full fluid flush. Don't forget a new filter, and empty the water through the bottom rad hose, not the bleed screw. (Theyre plastic, 20 years old, and brittle!). Depending on the year of car too, you'll need a relief valve aligning tool (again pretty cheap from paragon). A day's work, and around $100 in material, and you're good to go.
There are full details on www.clarks-garage.com
I think I'd rethink your choice of "specialist".
04-22-2005, 04:19 PM
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Drifting
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checked it by doing what? Smiling nicely? the only way you can check that is to take it off and replace it. Even then you'll still need to flush it. There are also two other o-rings, a rubber seal, and some shims in there. They need checking too. To do that, most of your water, and a good deal of oil will flow out onto their nice clean floor. I suspect they did a visual check (a 3-second cursory glance) and thought nothing of it. It is the number one cause of milkshake in our cars. If they can't even do that right........
04-22-2005, 04:27 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I think your right, they had called me back 2 hours after I dropped the car off (so who knows how much time they actually spent looking?) but it sounds like maybe it was just a visual inspection. They said they would re-build it for $350 dollars. Maybe I should just go ahead and have them to do that. I dunno.
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04-22-2005, 04:37 PM
#9
Drifting
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$350! Jeez! Buy the parts, get a few beers in for a wrenching party, and you'll still be under $200. It just riles me that shops drag out fancy equipment to make it look as though they know what they are looking at. They could have told you over the phone it was more than likely the oil cooler seal, and given you a quote on it there and then!
You'll need one of these: http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...107.165.98.htm
one of these: http://www.paragon-products.com/product_p/p218.htm
a filter: http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...ahle_oc142.htm
some oil, some water (don't forget the anti-freeze, and make sure it's compatible with aluminium engines, so phosphate free), and some hand cleaner
I make that about $55 plus oil, and time. Read the article on clarks garage, and see if you fancy doing it yourself. Oh, and if not, try another shop for a quote first...... Even the dealer might be an option at that price.
BTW, nice 308. (or is it a 328, can't see that small!)
You'll need one of these: http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...107.165.98.htm
one of these: http://www.paragon-products.com/product_p/p218.htm
a filter: http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...ahle_oc142.htm
some oil, some water (don't forget the anti-freeze, and make sure it's compatible with aluminium engines, so phosphate free), and some hand cleaner
I make that about $55 plus oil, and time. Read the article on clarks garage, and see if you fancy doing it yourself. Oh, and if not, try another shop for a quote first...... Even the dealer might be an option at that price.BTW, nice 308. (or is it a 328, can't see that small!)
04-22-2005, 05:00 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by pikey7
and if not, try another shop for a quote first...... Even the dealer might be an option at that price.
BTW, nice 308. (or is it a 328, can't see that small!)
BTW, nice 308. (or is it a 328, can't see that small!)
I just got off the phone with another German car repair shop owned by a nice little German guy. He gave me a lot of advice, and told me to check to see if oil was mixing in with coolant in the reservoir and radiator, and that would be a sure sign of a bad oil cooler. I asked him for a quote on replacing it but he said it all depended on the condition of the oil cooler, whether it was rebuild able or needed to be replaced. Interestingly, I think he said (German accent, kind of hard to understand) that the bad oil cooler might not necessary produce white smoke. He told me about his 924S and how it had the same problem. If anyone from MN is up for making a few extra bucks and being treated to pizza and drinks let me know.
Mike, it's a 77 308 GTB. It belongs to my dad, but I drive it almost more than he does. The good thing about owning that car, it makes repairs on the Porsche seem cheap.
04-22-2005, 05:09 PM
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Drifting
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how much did he quote assuming the cooler was OK, and it's just the seals? He's right on the button looking into the reservoir to see if it's cooler/seals. Plus, a positive thing! A car shop owner that OWNS one of our car's. He'll diagnose it properly in 5 minutes. under no circumstance watch fawlty towers before going over there though. The faux german accent will get in your head and he'll think you're taking the pi$$!
04-22-2005, 05:14 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by pikey7
under no circumstance watch fawlty towers before going over there though. The faux german accent will get in your head and he'll think you're taking the pi$$!
04-22-2005, 05:26 PM
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There was a sketch on the episode of Fawlty Towers (I think it was called "the germans") where Basil (John Cleese) did his goose-stepping thing. After you've seen that, you just can't help taking the mick out of them!
04-22-2005, 05:33 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by pikey7
There was a sketch on the episode of Fawlty Towers (I think it was called "the germans") where Basil (John Cleese) did his goose-stepping thing. After you've seen that, you just can't help taking the mick out of them!
