Well, What do you get when you pay???? A member card and # that gives you a very small discount at a limited choice of P-car stores and maybe some space on the web to post pics of your car. Pelican has tons of info, unlimitted pic space and its free, Im not bashining rennlist and I do understand that some one has to pay to keep it going, But make it worth paying for. Also sigs are cool but I dont need to know about you 1987 Buick or 1960 Dodge, This is a porsche forum so keep it porsche, Model, Year, Color, MODS, Pic link, its easy. As far as the whole member non member stuff, I think its funny, IF you feel that your better becuase you are paying for something that I am getting for free then go on a feel that way. There sould be no wars like that, Its a technical forum for tips tricks and info, I will help anyone who needs it member or not.

 

Don't forget the sticker too! I've saved much more on the car than $18. And sorry, I don't like board bashing, but the answers you get over here are a lot better. IMHO.

Also, to know what other cars people have could be quite useful. For instance, If I knew someone here also with a TR8, and got in trouble, I know i can drop an e-mail no probs. I'm sure a line of text doesn't take up that much bandwidth.

As for the non-member bashing. I think it's shameful. Yes I've done it, but I've also made sure it has a at the end. If someone feels the information they're getting from the board is worth it, then there will be no problem getting hands in pockets. Maybe you don't......?

 

The pelican forum has the business behind it. It also serves as a tool to get more customers. Rennlist is funded out of pocket (except through memberships and sponsors), which isn't much in the grand scheme of things.

 

I'll agree with that!

BB.

 

Here's my suggestion....

1) Make Rennlist avaible free of charge up till 250 posts. Of course, a newbie is welcome to purchase membership anytime before their 250 post count is up. Since everyone understand this...this should help minimise any issues related to the so-called "superior" attitude of the members versus non-members. This will also be helpful for John D in helping him anticipate his costs versus incoming funds for operating the website in the long run.

I can understand some posters' comments that the Pelican site is free. It is a Pelican business/marketing decision to help support their sales model. However, Rennlist does not operate under a sales model.

2) No "for sale" posts on the tech forums....period. If you want to sell something, go to the Classifieds. Rennlist members or sponsors can post ads for free. How about a minimal $1 charge for non-mebers to post ads in the Classifieds?

This help will eliminate some of the issues related to the non-members tapping into the "generosity" of the paying members for the use of Rennlist.

Just my humble opinion.

 

That would boot me out the door then.... I see no reason for me to pay for a service, when the vast majority of my posts are helpful to other people.


Hmm, pay you to fix your car, now that's a great idea..... I may own a Porsche, but it's not as though I have $20, or whatever the cost is, just laying around to spend. If I did, I'd likely not be working 2 different jobs just to make ends meat around here. Plus I still wouldn't find it money well spent, if all I generally do is help others........

 

These none member bashing ******* really turn me off. This site has a cult-like following for some folks. Maybe they should start their own web site www.elitist_website_wankers.com I'll be sure to avoid it.

 

I don't think you really should be making a comment like that as a non-member. Other than that I agree 100%.

 

To be perfectly honest, I can't blame him for making that comment, member or not.

BB.

 

I fully intended on becoming a member and paying. Went to the point of going in and got an error message that is was down for repair or what ever. After reading some of the posts yesterday and today, I have since been tempted to NOT join. Maybe it is my tendency to shy away from the elite, but it is more than likely the bashing of the non-members like me that I hate. Look guys, I have not come into this forum as an idiot, or as a mooch. I also do not bash this list. I have however; notice a lack of what originally brought me here. Just look at the posts now in comparison to what they were about two months ago. NEGATIVE and often DEPATES. If I wanted to debate everyone here over my opinion I would go on SLATE through MSN, it is free and full of debates.
JUST MY THREE CENTS.

 

Let’s see if I can add my $0.00002, in hopes it helps folks understand the vision I have had for Rennlist and Members/Memberships. I’m hopeful folks will understand – and keep it in the back of their mind – whether Member or not – in the future…

Let me try to come up with an analogy that works… Hmmmm… Ok, here goes…

Most of us have TVs and there is a huge variety of channels to watch, In some ways, all internet forums are like various TV stations. Some stations are “commercial”, others are “pay per view” or “premium subscription channels (like HBO) which are added cost, and others are funded by viewer support. Now – as a channel surfer, I can and may choose to watch any channel – and if I choose to see “pay per view”, then I also choose to get billed for it… Now that we know the types – let’s try to assign Internet Forums to the “channel types”.

Commercial – PelicanParts, as Wayne does a simply tremendous job of balancing “programming” (his Forums) against his revenue (parts sales).

Pay per view/Premium Stations – probably the best analogy are closed sites to paying members only. Sorry – but the first of those types of sites are probably **** sites and some gambling sites. Unless you “pay” – you can’t “play”

Viewer Supported Channels – I think Rennlist fits here best. As a few noted, I don’t have a business selling parts, and I’m pretty sure Rennlist isn’t a **** site (well, there are some threads in the OT area that push that envelope, but… ) OK – so let’s chase this fox through the forest a bit, and see where we end up….

For “viewer supported” channels – again, it’s a pretty fine balance. I want to keep the channel broadcasting, as it’s to the benefit of the viewing audience to do so. And for those who “support” that broadcast station – you bet, there is a “point of pride”. Absolutely understandable. However – at the same time – every time I tune in a privately funded TV station, I do NOT get a “pop up” telling me this is the Xth time I tuned it in and I’m a cheap SOB for not supporting it. Rather – it’s up to me to make that decision to support that effort or not. In short – if I understand the “value” equation of “cost” vs. “benefit” to me or my family personally, only THEN do I decide if it’s worth it to me personally become a benefactor.

Now – there is no global “one-size-fits-all” to that equation… Folks support this site because they are compelled to for many, many reasons – for as many reasons as there are Members, I dare say.

If you accept that as being closer to the truth then not, then you also have to accept that folks the don’t yet support the site can’t be beaten into joining. In fact – rather – it has exactly the opposite effect, it outcasts them from that same community they wish to participate in or even become a part of. Whether they choose to support it financially – to them, is inconsequential as to the reasons you choose to support the site.

So here is where I am – and have been for now, next month – into nine years of doing “this station”….

First – Rennlist is – and will always be – open to anyone from around the world who simply shares enthusiasm for the Porsche Marque. Broadly defined, it’s an “automobile enthusiast” regardless of age, race, color, creed, nationality, religious pretext – or any socio/economic categorizations.

Second – for those who are “Members” there is an acknowledgement that but for them, Sponsors, Moderators and Jen and I – this site would not even exist. BUT – at the same time – you are ombudsmen for this site and community, and therefore have a responsibility, at times and certainly when a non-Member posts one of their first posts, to try to make that new visitor “welcome”. These folks, whether Members or not – are still bound to you, in the community – by their simple shared enthusiasm for this thing we call “Porsche Fever”..

Third – I think what you see in this thread and often in other threads – is that Non-Members are folks who are cajoled into feeling as being something less then “Members”. Well – in truth and reality, they are not....

In fact, they are just like you before you personally and privately justified the “value equation” I referred to previously. Give them the opportunity to see what you saw in this site and community – and give them the latitude to make their own choice. Whether they do or don’t is their decision and their decision alone. But, the latitude to make up their own minds is something you can control – and I’d suggest there are better ways then taunting folks into submission. I’d suggest the power of “community” is far more compelling then “challenging” anyone…

And finally – yes, there are some features which are Member Only. If you stop and think about it – Rennlist incremental “features” are the only “gift” I can offer to those that have made the decision to support this site, as the site itself is the only “product” I can offer. In other words – I can’t give “discounts” on parts (I don’t sell them to support this site) nor can I offer free passes to Rennlist Events – as I’m not a local Car Club. So – yes – “Membership” is accorded some privileges, but those are based on what I’m able to reward Members with insofar as “features” and recognition within that same “community”.

So – on a Sunday AM with great driving weather forecasted for today – those are my rambling thoughts. While I’ve been thinking them for about nine years, I don’t think those “rambling thoughts” have changed too much, so I hope you, too – share and understand them. If you do – then you too, understand what Rennlist is all about..

Thanks for reading,

John

 

^^^^Applause^^^^

 

Great post John..

So, here comes another dilema... I sure hope when you get sick and tired of running this place you have someone suitable to take over!!

Best to you! Enjoy the weather.

 

Standing ovation, John!!! Great analogies, great post.

Folks, read the phrase at the bottom of my sig.

I'm a recent Rennlist member, but I lurked around for about eight months or so before I signed up. My first month looking at the board and asking questions had me jumped all over by "superior" members and other know-it-alls. Of all the communities I've participated in over the course of my life -online and in the real world- this is one of the WORST for welcoming new members. I'm willing to bet my entire year's salary that each and every ONE of you had a question you needed answered that, if you knew back then what you know about your Porsche now, you'd realize was a pretty stupid question. But it wasn't to you AT THE TIME BECAUSE YOU WERE STILL LEARNING. Hell, I've been building American big blocks for YEARS. But when I got my first 2.5L I was stumped in several areas. I've learned a lot thanks to many of you guys, but not without receiving my share of bashing for asking "stupid" questions. Now I'm finally at the stage where I'm comfortable dispensing some advice/help on my own. I wouldn't be at this stage if it weren't for a lot of you more understanding/patient guys.

Let's face it guys, the bulk of us -with maybe a few exceptions- own 944s/924s because we can't afford a GT3. How many of you are constantly whining about your finances? How many cars -even by "members" with thousands of posts- go up for sale because we NEED money?

Elitism is not for us, guys! We're not snobs. We're not butler-served, valet-parked a**holes who stick our noses up at the world. We're honest, hard-working, Porsche-loving people who love what we have and want to share that enthusiasm with others.

The majority of folks here are AWESOME! The rest of you "elitists" can shove off.

Jeremy

 

Aw c'mon. That never happens.