M030 vs Weltmeister sway bar rates
02-04-2005, 06:50 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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Location: San Francisco, CA Porsche: '92 968 Blk/Cashmere
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M030 vs Weltmeister sway bar rates
What are the rates for these sway bars at the min and max adj. settings? The front M030 looks to be about the same as the Welts, but the rear Welts are stiffer than the M030s. This would bias the handling towards the direction of oversteer from the balance of the OEM setups. Anyone run both sets of bars with otherwise identical setups and notice a significant change in balance?
The size specs for these bars are:
M030
F 30mm hollow
R 19mm solid
Welts
F 28mm solid
R 22mm solid
The size specs for these bars are:
M030
F 30mm hollow
R 19mm solid
Welts
F 28mm solid
R 22mm solid
02-04-2005, 07:01 PM
#2
Race Director
Remember the welts have wide range of adjustment and are easiy fine tuned. THe M030 unit are not adjustable (front) and have limted rear adjustment.
For me the adjustability is worth alot over the M030 units irrespective of actual stiffness.
I don't use the bars to adjust stifness. I use spring to do that. The sway bars impact balance.
If you are using stock springs then both are plenty stiff enough. You don't want super stiff bars and a soft suspension as this is not good for handleing. Thereby either set are stiff enough. If you are using aftermarket spring both are still stiff enough as the main use of the sway bars is fine tuning.
For me the adjustability is worth alot over the M030 units irrespective of actual stiffness.
I don't use the bars to adjust stifness. I use spring to do that. The sway bars impact balance.
If you are using stock springs then both are plenty stiff enough. You don't want super stiff bars and a soft suspension as this is not good for handleing. Thereby either set are stiff enough. If you are using aftermarket spring both are still stiff enough as the main use of the sway bars is fine tuning.
02-04-2005, 07:14 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
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That's kind of what I'm asking. I'm interested in anecdotal observation, but I'd also like to know precisely the difference in rate just for reference.
I currently have stock torsion bars and 250# front springs which I want to upgrage to something like 30mm and 400#. I just want to be sure the spring and torsion bar rates match up nicely with the Welts.
I have a preference for the Welts due to the infinite adjustability, but I want to know that the difference in front to rear rates wont cause too much of an oversteer bias that can't be dialed out.
I currently have stock torsion bars and 250# front springs which I want to upgrage to something like 30mm and 400#. I just want to be sure the spring and torsion bar rates match up nicely with the Welts.
I have a preference for the Welts due to the infinite adjustability, but I want to know that the difference in front to rear rates wont cause too much of an oversteer bias that can't be dialed out.
02-04-2005, 07:38 PM
#4
Unbannable
Rennlist Member
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Would the M030 swaybars have any effect on auto-x (or whatever) classes? If so, that may be somthing to consider if you plan on doing that.
edit: although I see you've already made mods that make that point moot. I'm still curious, though...
BB.
edit: although I see you've already made mods that make that point moot. I'm still curious, though...
BB.
02-07-2005, 11:14 AM
#6
Race Director
From most people I talk to they welts and the MO30 units are similar. The biggest difference being adjustability. The m030 units tend to be cheaper and a simply install. The front welt takes some thinking to install as it mounts very differently than the stock . The rear is very close to the stock mounting.
I run 350 fronts and 30 mm t-bars. 400lbs front are common as well. Alot of folks use the welt bars in combo with these. Other use the 968 M030 units. Both will work just fine, but you gain greater adjustability with welts and can use them to fine tune the balacnce of the car. When first setting up my 944-spec car I adjusted the welts both front and rear many times to dial in the type of balance I liked. With the M030's I would have been stuck with what I had excpt for the 3 position rear's.
Remember there may be not be precise difference in rates. The adjusatbility of the welts means there is no "rate". With respect rates for M030. Well A 19 mm rear is stiffer than a 18mm rear by the 4th power of the diameter. This is spring rate change is 25%. So the 19 mm is 25% stiffer than the 18 mm. So one could say the 22 mm rear welt is ALOT stiffer than the 19 mm M030, but do remember that the geometry on these bars is not the same and that can make a difference.
I would go with the welts since they are adjustable.
I run 350 fronts and 30 mm t-bars. 400lbs front are common as well. Alot of folks use the welt bars in combo with these. Other use the 968 M030 units. Both will work just fine, but you gain greater adjustability with welts and can use them to fine tune the balacnce of the car. When first setting up my 944-spec car I adjusted the welts both front and rear many times to dial in the type of balance I liked. With the M030's I would have been stuck with what I had excpt for the 3 position rear's.
Remember there may be not be precise difference in rates. The adjusatbility of the welts means there is no "rate". With respect rates for M030. Well A 19 mm rear is stiffer than a 18mm rear by the 4th power of the diameter. This is spring rate change is 25%. So the 19 mm is 25% stiffer than the 18 mm. So one could say the 22 mm rear welt is ALOT stiffer than the 19 mm M030, but do remember that the geometry on these bars is not the same and that can make a difference.
I would go with the welts since they are adjustable.
