Uninsulated is a pretty good description. Like I wrote on the previous page (page 3), the hydraulics of the power system actually provide quite a bit of damping, kind of like shock absorbers. I experienced this most dramatically when a line blew on my old Scirocco. No kickback really, just a really good sense of what is happening between your front tires and the road. It is actually kind of freaky at first.

Regarding price, I'm going with Tifo on this as well - YMMV. I think it is important to figure in the cost of used parts that you may buy that you wind up not using because they are too worn out. I lucked out though and only had to buy new boots and tie rods and still wound up paying between $300 and $350 total.

 

so the manual tie rod ends for the late 944 are hard to find?damn that sucks.

 

FWIW there's a member right here in this forum who found one literally "in a barn" and has been putting it back on the road. It was originally Al Holbert's race car, to boot!

 

________________________________________________________________________ _____________
so the manual tie rod ends for the late 944 are hard to find?damn that sucks.
________________________________________________________________________ _____________
If your struggling for tie rods try importing them from a UK (there's no difference lhd/rhd) or EU supplier. I don't believe there is a shortage over here.

 

Word has it the tie rod assemblies for the late offset cars are almost impossible to find. I don't think the ones for the early offset are impossible to find yet, but they have gone up in price since I bought mine. I paid about $85.00 each back in '02 and now Zim's list them for about $119.00.

And don't forget the left boot is the same as the one use on power steering, but the right boot is different.

 

After driving a student's 930 at the Glen last summer, I was very impressed with the steering feedback. I don't think my 951 will ever steer like a 930 (too much weight on front), but I would like to try manual.

What would be involved in making a PS rack truly manual. Not just short circuiting the feed hose back into the return, but removing internal parts.

It seems finding an old manual rack is hard, finding a good one harder, and good tie rods and intemediate shaft nearly impossible.

I haven't disassembled a PS rack, but what's inside there that isn't needed in a manual mode?

 

You really need a real manual rack. The manual rack has the proper ratio to te used un-assisted. A power rack, stipped of all of it's pump, fluid, etc, is still equipped with the wrong ratio on the rack and pinion gears. It will be hard as hell to turn and use at low speeds (think about what it's like when your powere steering pump goes out or the belt breaks, same feel). I guess you could swap in a manual rack r and p gearset, but then what is the point? You could have just put the complete manual rack in there that you would have rogued the gearset from.

Hope that makes sense!

 

That's not dependant on the tie-rod anlge (Ackerman) like was said, but on the height of the rack and the mounting location of the tie-rods. The bumpsteer is determined basically by the angle difference of the tie-rod and the a-arm. And yes... it can very well be the difference between a win and a barrier wall.

I am very happy with the steering communication from the late 951 PS rack... it's still weighty (not assisted much) and translates road surface well. I'm curious as to how much different they are. I have never had to perform a service on a non-PS equiped 944 at the shop, but I'll have to keep my eye out. I'd driven other manual rack cars and was very pleased save <5mph maneauvers! Tifo, will you be at the 944Fest with the famous CS? I want to see this thing in person. It's very impressive behind this screen.

 

Thanks!

I plan on being there this year. Honestly, the paint is dead. I needs to be repainted bad. That's the last thing on my ever-growing list to do.............

 

The car came from Randy Alexander who I believe got it from/thru Kelly Moss Racing, but I dont think they ever raced it professionally. The guy I know bought it from Randy about 4 years ago, and just sold it to another PCA guy in the area. So at this point, the car is still in MN.

Yes its quite a rare car, more so than the Canadian or European Turbo Cup cars. I have heard the number of US Spec Escort cars to be fewer than 10, and the number 7 rings a bell. But no confirmation on that whatsoever. There were a few '86 model year cars imported in for Escort Series, and then a few more in '87. I have never heard of an 88+ Escort car, but not sure that they dont exist. I believe all the Canadian Cup cars were 1988s.

Anyway, this car (an 87) is white and has had a couple different number/graphics schemes on it since Ive known of it, but none were the original Escort series logos or sponsorship (just numbers and stripes used by the current owners for PCA Club Racing). So I dont know the history of the car, who raced it or what the color scheme was on it back in the late 80's.

As far as late offset tie rods being available, you can still get them through the dealership for around $180 list price for each. Its a RoW part, since power steering was standard equipment on US cars, so your regular dealer might have to do some searching, and expect to wait several weeks, months for the slow boat from Germany to show up, unless you want to pay for air freight. When I had my usual parts guy check for me last week, there were 59 of them on the parts shelf in the Germany warehouse, none in North America.

 

That guy has more or less disappeared, unfortunately. I emailed him and PM'd him awhile back and no reply. He bought the car, the motor and other parts are in boxes, then didn't have the money to do anything with it. He posted it for sale on the Turbo BBS stating that he had financial issues and then disappeared. If someone bought it that lurks here on the BBS, or if he has it, I'd be curious......................

I just picked up a pair of 930 16X9 fuchs for the rear of my car, ala the 86 cup cars. After I get them cleaned up, painted red in the centers and some new tires, they will go on the back and the 951 8" fuchs will go to the front. I've been looking for a pair ever since I saw his car with them on it........

 

Tifo how long is the manual steering shaft from column to rack? from beginning of U joint to beginning of U joint?

 

Yeah, Jim, the number of Escort/ US Cup cars was, indeed, seven. Sean, the guy who found the Holbert/ Rothman's car under a tarp, emailed me right before the holidays, and he and the car are doing fine. He decided to basically sit on the car until his financial situation is such that he can put it right. So, yeah, Jim, that car in Minnesota is a RARE find, regardless of its condition.

Back on track, though, there's a dismantler here in Texas (Dallas- Ft. Worth area) that did my buddy right on some stuff for his '86 NA. Can't remember the name, I'll try to find it. I had no clue that manual racks (and the associated parts) were that hard to find.

Kevin, I wasn't referring to bump steer in the classic sense of the expression. Last month's 'Excellence' had an article on a Canadian Turbo Cup car, and one of the non-factory changes the owner made was the addition of power steering. Mods in the Rothman's Cup were limited to tire pressure and ride height (using the eccentrics?). Would that increase the bump steer? Or maybe it had more to do with the curb-bashing, late-braking, cut-throat tactics employed by the drivers of that series. Yeah, kickback indeed...

 

????

I though Ackerman was the relation of toe angle between the front wheels. Bump has to do with how the angle of the tie rods impacts toe as the suspension travels, from full droop to fully compressed. So, since the tie rod mounting point doesn't change from power to manual steering then there is not real impact to bump steer.

 

Okay, okay. So there's NO increase in feedback to the steering wheels due to the unassisted rack? Mid corner bumps, rough corner entries, curb-hopping all attribute to SOME level of kickback/ feedback/ whatever in the steering wheel, right? I'm not saying it's an issue, either. I asked Tifo about it (cuz I know he's not prone to bull****) to disprove whatever it was those former Rothman's Cup drivers were saying about the Cup cars needing power steering.

My amatuer guess is that on significantly lighter cars (Turbo Cups, Tifo's, an RS'd 924 like yours, Manning) a manual rack would only enhance the experience. Send ALL the info in undiluted and clear. Does anyone know if Ski converted his track car to a manual rack? Anycow, I didn't mean to start a huge debate or anything; I was just currious...