Luis de Prat

Well, many of the reeeeally late 951s were convertibles.

streckfu's

That's an idea they should have had MUCH earlier in production!

Robby

Luis- I'm curious- how does the convertible chassis feel compared to the regular? Do you notice it feeling much heavier, or, slower, less balanced, etc than the regular Turbo S? I've always wondered about this & so many people talk about losing so much to convertibles, so, I have to ask... Never had a chance to drive ANY 944 or 968 convertible, but, LOVE convertibles... the S2000 is a stiffer chassis than most today's coupes, which is VERY impressive- of course, keeping your car above 7K rpms all the time sounds annoying to me...

Luis de Prat

Hi Robby, the only 951 I've ever driven has been my cab, so I couldn't really say. I suppose the extra 140 lbs must take their toll versus a coupe, but the M44/52 engine really pulls hard when it gets on boost, so I don't have a good reference point.

As far as rigidity goes, I find my 951 just as rigid if not more so than my 83 coupe, but then again, I have yet to try a 951 coupe.

FWIW, the 951 cabs were the "last of the breed" so to speak, and I get the impression that a lot of care was put into making them worthy heirs to the 944 sportscar legacy. At any rate, my car will accelerate on the highway like there's no tomorrow and I shudder at the thought of what it would do if I chip'ed it, ,but I've been considering it lately!

Matt H

M030 was NOT standard in 1987+. Probably the biggest differences are
ABS (available not standard)
Airbags (standard, first production car to have standard both sides)
control arms/wheel offset (changes for the ABS system)
change to the belt tensioner from hydraulic to spring (often called an "auto tensioner, which it is not)
unsubstantiated claim that 86s have forged rods while 87+ dont (seems they used whatever they had until they were all gone, people have actually seen 86s without and 87+ with)

Yes, Yes (save for the rod theory and the tensioner), Yes, Yes

There was no MY1985 for 944 Turbo. The early cars (factory race cars) were early dash cars with 15" wheels. Not sure about brakes, never seen anything to confirm or deny that claim. The very earl MY1986 944 Turbos apparently shipped with 15" PDs. I know they will fit as I have seen it more than once.

No. Struts, shocks, and springs (there were about 9 sets of them) ALL different.
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Antonio951

Matt H, perfect answers!
Thanks for the help.
And one more thing, i thought about getting a red 89 S with 75K before i found the black 86 but i thought they only made one color of the S(silver rose). Iv seen silver, red and silver rose.

nize

there is no such thing as an '89-s'. the 's' version was ONLY in '88. all cars '89 and later were automatically 's' but did not say 's'.

also, the 'silver rose' was only available in '88 as well.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~p944ts/differ.htm

GOBOGIE

Not sure if I understand your question but I think I understand... yes they made different colors of the turbo S in '88 at production end. Originally it was to only be silb/rose.

Robby

NOT TRUE- ALL colors were avaiable in 88 Turbo S..... I have a Silver one & have the window sticker to prove it- I most CERTAINLY have the "S" option... mine is Zermatt Silver & was released early in '88 too....

Luis- CHIP IT....CHIP IT.... you know you want too... CHIP IT.....CHIP IT.... There's NO such thing as TOO FAST..... OH, BTW- the reason your chasssis probably feels stronger than the early NA (although I COULD be wrong), is b/c the Turbo S had much stiffer suspension & larger sways, etc, PLUS, more HP/TQ to help thrust it out of corners nice & flat by comparison, giving it the illusion of a stiffer chassis.... COULD ALSO have been stiffened a little, for all I know though.... Another thing- the convertibles extra weight, so I've been told, is caused mostly by chassis rigidity enhancing stuff that is underneath the car- which might ALSO help it feel more balanced- less likely to roll, since there is more weight below the Cg & LESS weight above (w/top down)- MY car has a 19lb LID on it & I can MOST DEFINATELY FEEL the dif b/t cornering in my car w/that SR lid in, vs, removed & sitting in the back hatch- I know that may be hard to believe, but, SEVERAL racers here have said the same thing- Ahmet used to autoX his car w/his SR panel REMOVED for that very reason..... Do YOU notice any dif in balance or anything when you have the convertible top up VS down? Just curious...

Matt H- evidently, SEVERAL turbo's WERE released as 85's- the ONLY dif was that they did NOT have the third brake light that was mandatory in 86- there are a couple in USA even.... in all honesty, there is a LOT of misinfo about these cars- it's just like you said- they often used what they could when they could & went w/it... very few things were honestly cast in stone...

Robby

Yes, originally it was SUPPOSED to be silver rose mettalic w/Burgundy plaid interior... that idea was scrapped soon- MY car was imorted to US in February or March of '88.... The earliest 1988 Turbo S were probably released as early as September of '87- just like the 2005's are already being released & HAVE been for several months already... The 300ZXTT was ANOTHER funny one- I have a friend who's parents bought one in summer of '89 & it WAS a 1989, although, many people say the line started in '90- obviously, a car sold in October of '89 was a '90, but, I think there is a line where a car sold before a certain month is a certain year- maybe it's August September? I'm sure there are dealers here who would know the technical answer- would a 2005 997 sold in November of 2004 actually say 2004 OR 2005 on it? What would be it's technical year? do they go by the year it's produced, or, the model year it is to become, or, what? the only t hing I'm SURE of is, it's NOT the year it was sold- I argued like hell to a guy selling a "'95" Corrado that actually had "'93" stamped on it- he said it was BRAND NEW & STILL on the dealer's lot wen he bought it in the year 1995- obviously, as many here know, the VR6 Corrado was ONLY made in hte USA fopr model years 1992, 1993, & 1994 w/the 93's & 94 being much dif from the 92's... ROW got them at least through 95, although, even US had cars sitting on lot's for over 2 full years longer.... WELL, for that matter, I'm sure there is at least ONE 1992 944Turbo S here in USA....

Matt H

Just so we are on the same page...

There are EARLY cars (pre 1985.5 dash) 944 Turbos. These were test cars for the factory racing effort. The earliest pictures I have seen are from the 1984 season (Nelson Ledges comes to mind because Tifo has posted a picture of it, but I am sure they were used earlier in the season, I believe that was late in 1984)

There are also some very early MY1986 944 Turbos that had 15" wheels and a very very small number that were without 3rd brake light. W/O 3rd brake light could not have been sold in the US as all cars sold in MY1986 were required to have a 3rd bake light (IIRC, YMMV). I have only seen one of these and to be honest, the owner was not sure if the hatch had been replaced before. As to Europe, again, I think it came down to them cleaning the shelves. The earliest cars in the US would probably have been sold in August/September 1985 but I suppose there could have been some July cars in there.

Model years are not based solely on production date as can be noted by the numerous 05s that have been running around for the better part of 6 months now.

As to color, 88 TS were offered in any color combo (supposedly there is one blue one). Like all other MY Guards Red appears to be the most common, the Silver Rose color was next, and I forget what was third. I am pretty sure the Silverrose was second only because it was originally to be the only color available. However, price and competition meant that they had to go another way.

For the record, as correctly stated above, there is no such thing as a MY1989 Turbo S. The Turbo S was only offered in MY1988, all 1989s got the S treatment with the larger hot side K26-8 vs the smaller K26-6. The S designation was dropped for MY1989 (the last year for 944 Turbos in the United States).
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Robby

Matt- that sounds right- BUT, when I said the 85 turbo, I was referring to 85.5- this still seems to be a grey area, based on what you're saying, which, is what I've always though... you ARE right... '86 had to have the third brake light in USA... BUT, there was AT LEAST one guy here on this list who SWEARS he had a PRE-86- it supposedly had the later interior, BUT, NO 3rd brake light & he SWORE it was an 85 (or 85.5)- not sure if this is the same guy you are reffering too, as he MIGHT have found out more about it later & assumed it weas just as swapped hatch, but, not sure- I wouldn't remember a name even if you said it, as it's been at least 3yrs since I last heard anything about the car....

nize

maybe it was another one of those na>turbo conversions? check the vin!

SamGrant951

My father swears up and down my 951 (build date Sep/85) did not come with a 3rd brakelight and that he added it at a later date. It never stuck to the window and was always upside down under the hatch carpet until I added a 968 wing w/ 3rd brakelight...I will confirm tomorrow but hes told me this time and time again. Was the third brakelight an option/standard equip. on the window sticker? (Just curious)

Robby

That's interesting.... I'd love to know... I dont think it was EVER an option, but, could be wrong... The 3rd brake light thing happened rather abruptly... car's NEVER had them- then, all of the sudden, ALL new ones from then on DID... Started a few months before 1986. It was really a good thing IMO.... if you've ever seen an old pick-up truck w/really dim lights, that hardly get any darker when hitting the brakes, it makes sense- there are several good reasons. I've even considered getting a 968 hatch like you (Sam) & then just leaving the 951 3rd brake light & having a 4th- the only thing I don't like about the 968 one is it's lower & there are SO many large SUV's, etc, out there now- the 968 one IS longer though, so, is probably sufficient & I'm not sure how the 4th one would LOOK, but, just a thought...


The guy who had chimed in a few times here, years ago, w/the 85.5 Turbo, was adamant that his car was a REAL 951. He provided VIN #'s at one time & SOMEONE checked them out- was one of the first ones ever made, IIRC, & there was only one or two others in the USA... IF it was NOT a turbo, then, someone went through a LOT of effort to make it one, considering that Porsche had already announced the factory 951 by then- I DID see a pic at one time & it looked identical to an '86 951... of course, someone COULD have added the wheels & turbo nose, etc, &, I didn't check the rotors, calipers, or susp... So, I'm pretty sure it was REAL.... there were a lot of little things like this that Porsche did though... as I said... very little about these cars was cast in stone....