peterjcb

The 944 is a great car no matter what particular model you have as long as it's in good shape and has been maintained. You don't want to be sinking a lot of money into any Porsche that been neglected. It starts getting expensive real fast.
The "S" basically requires additional attention to the Cam Chain / Cam Chain tensioner assembly, that's basically it. The only other drawback with the "S" is that replacement heads are very hard to come by. Make sure that you do the recommended timing belt changes.
I've had my "S" for over a year now and I love it. It's also less expensive to purshase than a turbo and has noticeably more power than a 944 N/A. Just my $.02

jonnybgood

About one year ago I was posting about my "$5500 Head Job doesn't feel so good" Actually it came to $6200 since he went in and did the rod bearings too over my objection. I now have 22k miles since this repair and the small town shop in Northern California did an admirable job. Engine runs cool in the summer with the AC on and has great oil pressure.

So I have learned a great deal about my first 944. I am way under water as far as dollars go. Replaced the clutch soon after the first major repair. I have a car with high miles (212K) but with an excellent interior and great looks. I have added a nice set of 16 inch turbo phone dials that really improve the looks. Turbo/S2 sway bars and I will be adding Turbo/S2 brakes as soon as I get spindles and hubs. I still have much to learn and at some point I might sell this car and get an S2 or 968. Unlikely that I would get 1/4 of my money out of the car so why sell? I think of putting an S2 or 968 engine in it when I have learned to drive this motor to its fullest but that is sometime in the future.

Knowing what I know now I would have bought an S2. I am not saying the S is bad. I still enjoy just leaving work and getting in my car so I like it alot. I just find myself buying all this S2 equipment for upgrades.

For some reason I enjoy driving a solid 17 year old high milage car that I can work on, improve, and drive like hell. good luck on your choice.

7thStranger

MY S is a daily driver. It is a lot more fun to drive then the 8v.

Maintance is not really that much more then any other 944. Just be sure to stay on top of it.

Charlotte944

I've had an early 944 ('84 model that I still miss), and I currently own an '87 NA and an '86 951. I have driven both an S and an S2, and I would like to have one of each, plus a Turbo S, S2 Cabriolet, Turbo Cab, 968 coupe, 968 Cab,.... Well, you get the picture.

To my way of thinking if the car is in good shape and the price seems fair, then why not go for it? Sure, there will be some maintenance issues, just like with any of these cars, but I see working on these cars as half of the joy of ownership.

In fact, I enjoy seeing the reactions I get when I tell people that I do my own work. Most folks hardly bat an eye when you tell them you work on an American car, but when you tell them you work on a Porsche you get consideralbly more respect.

Z-man

Oh really, ya think? Were you referring to the head rebuild I got done this past September on my 89 944S2?

Hmmm - that $5500.00 included a factory refurbished head, 16 NEW valves, valve guides, valve springs - basically a COMPLETE head - MACHINED and all. I also got a 3 year warranty on the parts from Porsche AG. The part cost me around $2000.00. I could have gotten a head from an independant place for about $500 less, but that would not have included the valves, valve guide, NOR the warranty,

Oh, and the price I payed also included a new timing belt and balance shaft belt, as well as an oil pressure sender thingy that got toasted when the original head cracked, and a complete coolant and oil flush.

You DO know that a single valve for my motor costs about $93.00, right? I got sixteen new ones in the rebuild. (That's a $1488.00 valuve, BTW).

Oh, and one more thing - the independant shop that did the rebuild quoted me an estimate of $5500.00, but in reality, with all the labor, it would have been more like $7500.00, but they honored the original estimate.

Now don't get me wrong - these cars can be expensive to repair. You really don't want to know how much $$ I've put into my car! But I drive my car hard on the track and I know two things:
1. I understand the importance of preventative maintenance, and do all I can to make sure my car is in tip-top shape.
2. Sometimes, things will brake, and hopefully it won't break the bank.

But implying that 'I got taken for a ride' because of a $5k headjob is a bit out of line. I'd like to see you do better with a head rebuild on a 16-valve 944 series car. Your 'taken for a ride' comment is NOT appreciated.

PISSED OFF,
-Zoltan.

joseph mitro

Z - i think he was talking about johnnybgood

Z-man

Oh, and johnny1423: sorry for the sidetrack. Back to your original question:

What is the asking price for the 944S you're looking at? Keep in mind that a decent 944S2 will run you about $8k, so if the 944S asking price is near that, you may want to keep looking. While the cam chain guide/tensioner is supposed to be good for 100k miles, over time the plastic rail of that component becomes brittle and can snap off. If you get this car, it would be a good idea to have that unit replaced.

Another car you may want to consider is the 1989 944 2.7 8-valve n/a. They only made this car for a year, but it's got nearly the power output of a 944S, but doesn't have the 16-valve head, which is more expensive to repair. (See my post above... ) Most parts for the 2.7 are interchangeable with the 2.5 n/a motor. IMHO, the 89 944n/a is one of the more desireable 944's to own.

Of course, as a 944S2 owner, I am partial to this car as well. Why? Compared to a 944 2.5 n/a, it's got more power. Compared to a 951, it's got more low end power. Case in point: VIR a couple of weeks ago - PCA DE event. A friend of mine with a modded 951 and I were running together. Coming out of the snake, the climbing esses, the roller-coaster/hog pen, I would literally pull away from him! (Then again, he had me on the straights! )

The price of 968's are coming down significantly. If you want the final iteration of the 924/944/968 evolution, that's not a bad option either. Just keep in mind that you need to deal with all the 16-valve 'issues' of the 944S/S2, as well as the vario-cam system. I also believe some of the earlier cars had some tranny issues (ring and pinion) that was due to improper specs being used.

As is the case with all turbo-charged cars, a 951 is your choice if you wish to modify your 944. Even though most of these cars are nearly 15 years old, there's still plenty of power to extract from them! I'd go with a 1987+ model, which has the later offset wheels and ABS. I wouldn't get a 951S if you're going to modify the car - those cars are becoming rarer and hold their value better if left untouched.

As said above - get the best car your $$ can buy - you're better off getting a well-kept 944 8v n/a vs. a 944S that has signs of abuse for the same price. (That's Bruce Anderson's mantra, BTW)

BTW: What will be the primary use of your new 944?

Good luck!
-Z.

PCinDC

Sheesh. A little defensive? Switch to decaf! And no, I wasn't even referring to you, so calm yourself there pal.

NOT TRYING TO **** ZOLTAN OFF,

- Paul

Z-man

OK- sorry I over-reacted. I blame my blood sugar!

Still, paying five large for a head job on a 16-valve 944 engine is about the going rate. Granted, it's a difficult thing to justify, given that a 944S sells for around $5k, and a 944S2 for $8k, but that's the facts...

Sorry again Paul,
-Z.

tifosiman

Honestly now, if I had an "S" (which are darn good cars IMHO), and I was looking at a $5500+ bill for a headjob, I would have to think twice about that bill.

If I loved the car and wanted to keep it, I would almost consider looking for a decent, used S2 motor (or even 968motor) to drop into it instead. For that kind of money, I would think one could do that and still have some cash left over. Right? I mean heck, Pete bought his entire S2 car for that much.

Z-man

tifosiman: interesting point. In my case, I am considering selling my 944S2 within a year. If I didn't repair the head, I wouldn't get squat for the car. With a new head, I can recover more of my losses...

A 944S2 motor swap in a 944S would be a much more expensive proposition than repairing the original motor, plus the resale value on such a car would most likely be less.

-Z.

johnny1423

Thanks to all for the insight
The car in question is in very good condition with maintainence records. It has 65k on the clock. Had T/B W/P etc at 39k , so it will need it again soon if purchased. Also will need new front tires before long. No mods. No abuse. Guards red/black. Can probably get her for around $6k
Again, I would prefer a 951 but that same year/mileage/condition would cost me another $4k for about 30 more horses right???
It sounds like A) i should always drive above 4k rpm B) make sure all maintainence is kept up to date C) dont crack the head D) if C happens,,,dont spend $5500 to fix
Will keep you all posted.

tifosiman

I dunno 'bout that.

$5500 would be more than enough cash to tackle an S2 motor swap I think. Budget in, worst-case scenario, around $3000 to $3500 for the S2 motor and needed parts for the swap. That leaves you $2000 to $2500 left-over for little "forgot about that" bits that you need to finish it (and/or an S2 transmission when you blow up the S trans).

Of course, this is all supposing that one could do the work themselves or with the help of Rennlist buddies .

As far as the resale value, you'd probably come out ahead. If you spend less than $5500 to get the car working, and assume that it will not lose any value, you've done good. If you for some reason want to sell later, you could probably find the right buyer that would pay a little more than normal value for the car because of the motor (I wouldn't expect to recoup the entire cost of the swap, of course, but asking $1K or so more than an equivalent stock S wouldn't be unreasonable, if the swap is done well and it drives properly).

Just food for thought. Resale value is a silly discussion on a 944 forum anyway.

(can you tell I want a 3.0 motor someday? )

PCinDC

Z-Man,
No problems, I would probably feel the need to justify that expense too! I think you touched on the point I was trying to make, which apparently I did in a less-than-tactful way (johnnybgood, no offense was intended)...which is just that these cars are VERY expensive to fix when bad things happen, and a lot of times that expense is not justifiable given the value of the car.

Now again, this is a subjective point. As Z-Man illustrates, the expense was worth it to him because he loves that car - thats admirable. It is worth noting that Z-man's decision was probably not made with tfinancial concerns as the number 1 priority. Your situation may or may not be different.

good luck!

joseph mitro

that's why i'm repairing mine myself. i figure the cost of parts and labor to do everything on my S would be around $8000. for me, that price will be about $3000. this includes machining, completely new upper and lower gasket sets, bearings, rings, EVERY sensor is new, belts, rollers, tensioners, rebuilt control arms, rebuilt PS rack, rebuilt head with two new valves, valve guides, valve grind, valve springs, and new clutch with lightweight flywheel (whew....did i cover everything?)