**Got speeding ticket, COP used NO RADER, wtf?**
11-11-2004, 06:52 PM
#16
Jane Bond 007
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Cops CAN estimate speed and have it stand up in court. He's not charging you with a specific speed, just excessive. Get a lawyer, but this is not a slam dunk for you.
11-11-2004, 07:16 PM
#17
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I learned in basic physics in high school that there are several ways they can estimate your speed that are very reliable. We had our physics teacher prove it to us in the high school parking lot. He made us all believers... he was +/- 3mph each time. Pretty cool, although he was practically an Einstein when it came to his profession!!!
I don't know much about how the police actually do this, but I would guess it is somewhat reliable.
I don't know much about how the police actually do this, but I would guess it is somewhat reliable.
11-11-2004, 08:08 PM
#18
If you read most state laws regarding the Police useage of radar. You'll see that most states require the cop to actually 'witness' you speeding before utilizing Radar to verify the fact you are speeding.
Radar is supposed to only be used to reinforce that the cop is actually seeing what he/she thinks they are seeing. However, it's hard to prove this and most cops use active radar all the time and don't use their training to spot offenders.
VASCAR is a way for cops to calculate your speed without Radar or Lidar reinforcement. Another thing cops can do is pace you and monitor their own speedometer in order to ticket you for speeding, cop cars have calibrated speedometers.
I'd like to think that any speeding ticket should have an actual speed listed on it though. As I wouldn't think a cop could just give you a ticket that you are just plain speeding without any numbers to reinforce the fact. That would be like giving you a parking ticket, but not putting the address where the car was illegally parked, you can simply tell the judge it was in your own driveway and no one would be the wiser.
Radar is supposed to only be used to reinforce that the cop is actually seeing what he/she thinks they are seeing. However, it's hard to prove this and most cops use active radar all the time and don't use their training to spot offenders.
VASCAR is a way for cops to calculate your speed without Radar or Lidar reinforcement. Another thing cops can do is pace you and monitor their own speedometer in order to ticket you for speeding, cop cars have calibrated speedometers.
I'd like to think that any speeding ticket should have an actual speed listed on it though. As I wouldn't think a cop could just give you a ticket that you are just plain speeding without any numbers to reinforce the fact. That would be like giving you a parking ticket, but not putting the address where the car was illegally parked, you can simply tell the judge it was in your own driveway and no one would be the wiser.
11-11-2004, 08:28 PM
#19
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i know of people were i live with this same situation and it actually did stand up in court with no speed. i think it really depends on the judge and the cop. in court the cop will beable to talk. nice cop will let it go. others will fight for the ticket to stand. good luck
11-11-2004, 10:17 PM
#21
Nerd Herder
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I got tagged in (Ok this was a whlie ago) in a NEW 1977 red Trans Am. I was passing within the speed limit on a 4-lane. I was issued a ticket for 60 in a 45. NO radar. No cop behind pacing me. The copper was in oncoming traffic and saw red- thhats all it took. I fought it in court and the copper won.
Case over. You have a better case with newer technology.
Michelle is dead right.
Case over. You have a better case with newer technology.
Michelle is dead right.
11-11-2004, 10:51 PM
#22
Thinking outside da' bun...
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The Smokey and the Bandit film series is loosely baned on a series of events about a true story of a guy who once owned a red 77 trans am with flying hood bird. The part went to Burt Reynolds but Chris wanted Jerry Lewis. Well. We cant have everything can we.
Im just ****tin ya man!
Im just ****tin ya man!
11-12-2004, 01:35 AM
#23
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Agreed. Keep in mind that traffic courts have one thing in mind - to ensure a continuous and unimpeded flow of money from the pockets of the public to the local government coffers. The onus is on YOU to prove you weren't speeding rather than on the police to prove you were. It shouldn't be that way, it sucks, but that's the way it is and this is what it has become.
Keep in mind also the following points (some of which have been mentioned):
1- Police are TRAINED to estimate speeds. You might get a reduction, but you probably won't get a dismissal based on that.
2- Police can use LASER (which isn't radar) also.
3- You can be paced, the cops can count the number of seconds it takes for you to travel from one point to another a known distance apart and calculate an "estimated" speed on that, "white line" counted, etc.
4- You ARE entitled to a court hearing and should avail yourself of it, but don't expect to win.
5- Read your options on the back of the ticket carefully. A lot of states allow you to do a "traffic school" in order to keep points off your record. It'll cost you a bit more but you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that the white collar crooks aren't filching more money out of you over this and you might actually learn a thing or two useful. You have to pay the ticket though.
Whatever you decide, good luck.
Keep in mind also the following points (some of which have been mentioned):
1- Police are TRAINED to estimate speeds. You might get a reduction, but you probably won't get a dismissal based on that.
2- Police can use LASER (which isn't radar) also.
3- You can be paced, the cops can count the number of seconds it takes for you to travel from one point to another a known distance apart and calculate an "estimated" speed on that, "white line" counted, etc.
4- You ARE entitled to a court hearing and should avail yourself of it, but don't expect to win.
5- Read your options on the back of the ticket carefully. A lot of states allow you to do a "traffic school" in order to keep points off your record. It'll cost you a bit more but you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that the white collar crooks aren't filching more money out of you over this and you might actually learn a thing or two useful. You have to pay the ticket though.
Whatever you decide, good luck.
Last edited by Porsche-O-Phile; 11-12-2004 at 08:51 AM.
11-12-2004, 12:03 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by 97xray
I received a ticket with no radar, speed "estimated" was written on the ticket (and was absurd). I took pictures of the location, the angle of the road as it entered the corner and exited the corner. I was all ready to make a case for the impossibility of the cops claimed speed (55 around a 25mph suggested speed corner).
I didn't have to.
The second I pulled out my 8x10 photos, and politely asked to make a case - starting with the clear statement that I was NOT speeding, the ticket was completely thrown out. The magistrate didn't even hesitate. I don't know why, just am happy with the outcome.
I hope that helps.
I didn't have to.
The second I pulled out my 8x10 photos, and politely asked to make a case - starting with the clear statement that I was NOT speeding, the ticket was completely thrown out. The magistrate didn't even hesitate. I don't know why, just am happy with the outcome.
I hope that helps.
twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows
and a paragraph on the back of each one, and looked at the seeing eye dog.
And then at twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and began to cry,
'cause Obie came to the realization that it was a typical case of American
blind justice, and there wasn't nothing he could do about it!"
11-12-2004, 01:35 PM
#25
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I got a ticket 6 weeks ago or so when I was in Wisconsin (hmm, out-of-state Porsche I guess is like a beacon). I was so confounded that I actually got pulled over that I freely admitted that I was exceeding the speed limit (exhibit 1 in my "I am an idiot" defense). I said that I may have been doing 70 (limit was 55). Bear in mind, this was on a two-lane road surrounded by corn as far as the eye can see, and I would pass one car in the opposite direction every two or three minutes.
So he tells me that that is "far too fast for this road", which of course is totally ridiculous, but anyway he writes up the ticket and the speed on it is 70, exactly what I said, which seems a little fishy. So either he didn't have any speed reading on me and just wrote down what I said, or he actually got me at less than 70 and wrote down what I said. I actually think I was probably doing 75, but I wasn't going to say that.
Then of course there's the "you're out-of-state, blah, blah, blah, I can take a Visa card right now and you'll be on your way." Oh, how convenient.
So he tells me that that is "far too fast for this road", which of course is totally ridiculous, but anyway he writes up the ticket and the speed on it is 70, exactly what I said, which seems a little fishy. So either he didn't have any speed reading on me and just wrote down what I said, or he actually got me at less than 70 and wrote down what I said. I actually think I was probably doing 75, but I wasn't going to say that.
Then of course there's the "you're out-of-state, blah, blah, blah, I can take a Visa card right now and you'll be on your way." Oh, how convenient.
11-12-2004, 04:44 PM
#26
Race Director
Originally Posted by elf89
"Obie looked at the seeing eye dog, and then at the
twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows
and a paragraph on the back of each one, and looked at the seeing eye dog.
And then at twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and began to cry,
'cause Obie came to the realization that it was a typical case of American
blind justice, and there wasn't nothing he could do about it!"
twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows
and a paragraph on the back of each one, and looked at the seeing eye dog.
And then at twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and began to cry,
'cause Obie came to the realization that it was a typical case of American
blind justice, and there wasn't nothing he could do about it!"
Color me impressed!
11-12-2004, 05:46 PM
#27
Race Director
The police most likely paced you. Happened to me years ago. I took it to court and lost.
Basically, I stated that the light infront of me turned yellow, and I gunned it due to a car tailing me. I continued at the faster speed until I got off the highway. The car behind me also got off. Then he put his lights on!
In court, the policeman stated that he timed me using his speedo which was recently calibrated according to standard procedures of the police department.
Check your ticket - there may be a section where he checked off a box which shows how many mph you were over the limit (ex: 5-10mph over, 10-20mph over...etc).
IMHO, it's probably not worth it for you to fight the ticket. But then again, I'm an old fart!
-Z-man.
Basically, I stated that the light infront of me turned yellow, and I gunned it due to a car tailing me. I continued at the faster speed until I got off the highway. The car behind me also got off. Then he put his lights on!
In court, the policeman stated that he timed me using his speedo which was recently calibrated according to standard procedures of the police department.
Check your ticket - there may be a section where he checked off a box which shows how many mph you were over the limit (ex: 5-10mph over, 10-20mph over...etc).
IMHO, it's probably not worth it for you to fight the ticket. But then again, I'm an old fart!
-Z-man.
11-12-2004, 06:55 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
I've gotten a couple of these over the years. Though I haven't beaten one (haven't really tried), the police are required to calibrate their speedometers for accuracy at certain intervals (6 months?) If they've completed the certification, then the office can say "I was going 50, and you were pulling away from me - or some such declaration that may or may not have an actual speed attached to it. Additionally, they can use their radar to determine actual speed of the police car based on the radar refrlections off the ground, and accomplish the same thing.
If you really want to beat this - find the national motorist association (nma.org ?) they have a complete package of recommendations to beat the ticket that you can rent - it will include copies of the actual statutes from the state as well as a number of books, etc. on how to defend yourself agaisnt traffic tickets. Membership is 20 or 30 bucks a year and is pretty worthwhile
If you really want to beat this - find the national motorist association (nma.org ?) they have a complete package of recommendations to beat the ticket that you can rent - it will include copies of the actual statutes from the state as well as a number of books, etc. on how to defend yourself agaisnt traffic tickets. Membership is 20 or 30 bucks a year and is pretty worthwhile
11-12-2004, 07:56 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by elf89
"Obie looked at the seeing eye dog, and then at the
twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows
and a paragraph on the back of each one, and looked at the seeing eye dog.
And then at twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and began to cry,
'cause Obie came to the realization that it was a typical case of American
blind justice, and there wasn't nothing he could do about it!"
twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows
and a paragraph on the back of each one, and looked at the seeing eye dog.
And then at twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles
and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and began to cry,
'cause Obie came to the realization that it was a typical case of American
blind justice, and there wasn't nothing he could do about it!"
hahaha I love that song.
anyways, I got a ticket once, picked up a book about traffic tickets, and decided to do a "trial by written declaration". In CA, if you're found guilty after that, you still have the right to a real trial. Do as much research as you can, quote the cop when it helps you, and take pictures, etc. Its my opinion that you've got a pretty good chance at getting out of this one.
Also, cops are required to "tune" their radar with a tuning fork that comes with the gun before EVERY shift. I think laser is the same, but they don't use a tuning fork for it.
Good luck!
